Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-29 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Tue, 2016-11-29 at 10:10 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > Let's try and go further. How's this: > >When scheduling non-real-time processes (i.e., those scheduled >under the SCHED_OTHER, SCHED_BATCH, and SCHED_IDLE policies), the >CFS scheduler employs a t

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-29 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Peter, On 29 November 2016 at 12:46, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 08:43:33AM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> > >> > In any case, for the case of autogroup, the behaviour has always been, >> > autogroups came quite late. >> >> This ("the behavior has always been"

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-29 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 08:43:33AM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > > > In any case, for the case of autogroup, the behaviour has always been, > > autogroups came quite late. > > This ("the behavior has always been") isn't quite true. Yes, group > scheduling has been around since Lin

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-29 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
[Resending because of bounces from the lists. (Somehow my mailer messed up the MIME labeling)] Hi Mike, On 11/28/2016 02:46 AM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Sun, 2016-11-27 at 22:13 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >> Here's my attempt to define the root task group: >> >>* If au

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-28 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Peter, On 11/25/2016 10:49 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 09:54:05PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> So, part of what I was struggling with was what you meant by cfs-cgroup. >> Do you mean the CFS bandwidth control features added in Linux 3.2? > > Nope, /me di

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-27 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Sun, 2016-11-27 at 22:13 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > Here's my attempt to define the root task group: > >* If autogrouping is disabled, then all processes in the root CPU > cgroup form a scheduling group (sometimes called the "root task > group"). >

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-27 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Mike, On 11/23/2016 04:33 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 14:54 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> Hi Mike, [...] >> Actually, can you define for me what the root task group is, and >> why it exists? That may be worth some words in this man page. > > I don't thin

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 05:33:23PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > Okay -- you're really quite the ASCII artist. And somehow, > I think you needed to compose the mail in LaTeX. But thanks > for the detail. It's helpful, for me at least. Hehe, its been a while since I did LaTeX, so I'd

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 09:54:05PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > So, part of what I was struggling with was what you meant by cfs-cgroup. > Do you mean the CFS bandwidth control features added in Linux 3.2? Nope, /me digs around for a bit... around here I suppose: 68318b8e0b61 ("Ho

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Peter, On 11/25/2016 05:34 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > On 11/25/2016 05:18 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 05:08:44PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >>> On 11/25/2016 04:51 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: >>> Well that's one way of looking at it. So, the c

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
On 11/25/2016 05:18 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 05:08:44PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> On 11/25/2016 04:51 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: >> Well that's one way of looking at it. So, the change >> that I'm talking about came in 2.6.32 with CFS then? > > cfs-cgr

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Peter, On 11/25/2016 05:04 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 04:04:25PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: ┌─┐ │FIXME│ ├──

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 05:08:44PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > On 11/25/2016 04:51 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > Well that's one way of looking at it. So, the change > that I'm talking about came in 2.6.32 with CFS then? cfs-cgroup landed later I think, and it was fairly wobbly in t

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 05:04:56PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > That is; the whole thing > becomes, where l denotes the level in the hierarchy and i an > entity on that level: > > l w_g,i > dt_l,i = dt \Prod -- > g=0 \Sum w_g,j > > > Or more co

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
On 11/25/2016 04:51 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Fri, 2016-11-25 at 16:04 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > ┌─┐ │FIXME│ ├─

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Peter Zijlstra
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 04:04:25PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >>┌─┐ > >>│FIXME│ > >>├─┤ > >>│How d

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Fri, 2016-11-25 at 16:04 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > >┌─┐ > > >│FIXME│ > > >├─┤ > > >│How do

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
On 11/25/2016 04:04 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > Hi Mike, > > On 11/25/2016 02:02 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: >>>┌─┐ >>>│FIXME│ >>>├

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Mike, On 11/25/2016 02:02 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Thu, 2016-11-24 at 22:41 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >>Suppose that there are two autogroups competing for the same >>CPU. The first group contains ten CPU-bound processes from a >>kernel bui

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Thu, 2016-11-24 at 22:41 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >Suppose that there are two autogroups competing for the same >CPU. The first group contains ten CPU-bound processes from a >kernel build started with make -j10. The other contains a sin‐ >

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
On 11/25/2016 01:52 PM, Afzal Mohammed wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 10:41:29PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >>Suppose that there are two autogroups competing for the same >>CPU. The first group contains ten CPU-bound processes from a >>kern

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

2016-11-25 Thread Afzal Mohammed
Hi, On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 10:41:29PM +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >Suppose that there are two autogroups competing for the same >CPU. The first group contains ten CPU-bound processes from a >kernel build started with make -j10. The other contains a si

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
On 11/23/2016 06:19 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 17:05 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >>> I don't think we need group scheduling details, there's plenty of >>> documentation elsewhere for those who want theory. >> >> Actually, which documentation were you referring

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 17:05 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > I don't think we need group scheduling details, there's plenty of > > documentation elsewhere for those who want theory. > > Actually, which documentation were you referring to here? Documentation/scheduler/*

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 17:04 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > > In what circumstances does a process get moved back to the root > > > task group? > > > > Userspace actions, tool or human fingers. > > Could you say a little more please. What Kernel-user-space > APIs/system calls/etc

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
> I don't think we need group scheduling details, there's plenty of > documentation elsewhere for those who want theory. Actually, which documentation were you referring to here? Cheers, Michael -- Michael Kerrisk Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/ Linux/UNIX S

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Mike, On 11/23/2016 04:33 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 14:54 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> Hi Mike, >> >> First off, I better say that I'm not at all intimate with the details >> of the scheduler, so bear with me... >> >> On 11/23/2016 12:39 PM, Mike Galbrait

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Wed, 2016-11-23 at 14:54 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > Hi Mike, > > First off, I better say that I'm not at all intimate with the details > of the scheduler, so bear with me... > > On 11/23/2016 12:39 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > > On Tue, 2016-11-22 at 16:59 +0100, Michael Kerris

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
Hi Mike, First off, I better say that I'm not at all intimate with the details of the scheduler, so bear with me... On 11/23/2016 12:39 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote: > On Tue, 2016-11-22 at 16:59 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >>┌─

Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature

2016-11-23 Thread Mike Galbraith
On Tue, 2016-11-22 at 16:59 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >┌─┐ >│FIXME│ >├─┤ >│The following is a litt