Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:22:34PM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > On Feb 11, 2005, Jon Smirl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's not Larry choosing not to have you do the work, you are self > > selecting not to do it because you won't sign the contracts. > > No. We don't want access to the BK

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 10:56:02AM -0800, none given wrote: > On Fri, February 11, 2005 11:18 am, Larry McVoy said: > >The mails have started flowing in saying "I don't agree with Alexandre > >and please don't pull the plug" so a point of clarification. We have > >no intention of shutting down the

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, February 11, 2005 11:18 am, Larry McVoy said: The mails have started flowing in saying "I don't agree with Alexandre and please don't pull the plug" so a point of clarification. We have no intention of shutting down the BK free product. We are aware that there are 10's of thousands of dev

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 11, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) wrote: > You are also right that figuring out the merges is a pain. So what? > We never said that we'd figure out how to do all this well and then > teach you how to do it well. We're not asking for you to teach us how to do it. We're just aski

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 11, 2005, Jon Smirl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's not Larry choosing not to have you do the work, you are self > selecting not to do it because you won't sign the contracts. No. We don't want access to the BK software. We want access to the data that is stored in the repository, that

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 11, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 01:30:22PM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: >> > Can you offer any plausible explanation other than a good faith desire >> > to help the open source community, albeit in a non-traditional way? >> I don't see what you'v

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

The mails have started flowing in saying "I don't agree with Alexandre and please don't pull the plug" so a point of clarification. We have no intention of shutting down the BK free product. We are aware that there are 10's of thousands of developers in the open source world who do not agree with

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:39:47 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Oliva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The bit I don't understand is that you've claimed you'd be willing to > implement the code needed to export the additional information that > Roman, myself and probably many others would like to have, if someone

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 01:01:46PM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > I don't believe his claim, and I can prove it with a dumb example. > > Consider three patches, A, J and U, such that A and U are identical, > and J is a patch that reverses them. > > You can determine the final state of the tree g

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 01:30:22PM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > Can you offer any plausible explanation other than a good faith desire > > to help the open source community, albeit in a non-traditional way? > > I don't see what you've done as helping the open source community. So in your m

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 10, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) wrote: > It seems like you've made up your mind that we are operating out of pure > self interest and have no desire to help you or anyone else unless we > get something out of it. In other words, we're making our decisions > based on the net posit

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:17:00PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > So if we knew that doing this would hurt our business, which according > you is the only thing we care about, then why would we do it? The usual > response is the marketing value we get out of it. Yes, we certainly do > get some posi

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 08:34:37PM +0100, d.c wrote: > El Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:22:39 +0100 (CET), > Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > To remind you the main problem was and is still, that the kernel history > > is locked into bk. At this point I'm not really sure, whether all bk us

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi Alexandre, It seems like you've made up your mind that we are operating out of pure self interest and have no desire to help you or anyone else unless we get something out of it. In other words, we're making our decisions based on the net positive/negative effect on our business. Is that a fa

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:23:19 +0100, Vojtech Pavlik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 10:42:15AM -0600, Steve Lee wrote: > > > Roman, besides BK being closed source, how exactly is it lacking for > > your needs? If what it lacks is a good idea and helps many, Larry and > > crew

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

El Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:22:39 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > To remind you the main problem was and is still, that the kernel history > is locked into bk. At this point I'm not really sure, whether all bk user > realize this, as you constantly try to distract them with

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 10:42:15AM -0600, Steve Lee wrote: > Roman, besides BK being closed source, how exactly is it lacking for > your needs? If what it lacks is a good idea and helps many, Larry and > crew might be willing to add whatever it is you need. A feature I lack is 'floating changes

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Roman, besides BK being closed source, how exactly is it lacking for your needs? If what it lacks is a good idea and helps many, Larry and crew might be willing to add whatever it is you need. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:08:20AM -0500, James Bruce wrote: > Roman, please give up on importing 100% of the history. There's no > point arguing something if you already know what the other person's > answer will be. Larry will not change his mind under any currently > foreseeable circumstan

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

I really got bored of this thread.Can you all question your self on thing? If someone starts reading right now the sources of the linux kernel will be able to understand every aspect and part of the code??? Do you understand every aspect? Is it still "opensource" or starts to be a "closedsource" s

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > This problem is nowhere near as hard as you are making it out to be > but it is hard. But it's not that bad, we do this every time we do > a CVS import, we have to intuit the changeset boundaries themselves, > which is actually harder than what you ar

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 9, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) wrote: > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:06:02AM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: >> So you've somehow managed to trick most kernel developers into >> granting you power over not only the BK history > It's exactly the same as a file system. If you put som

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Nicolas Pitre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:06:02AM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > > So you've somehow managed to trick most kernel developers into > > > granting you power over not only the BK history > > It's exactly the same

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Roman, please give up on importing 100% of the history. There's no point arguing something if you already know what the other person's answer will be. Larry will not change his mind under any currently foreseeable circumstances. Yes, there is "meta-data lockin" whether anyone at BitMover wil

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

While I agree with your overall sentiment, please compare apples to apples regarding the license. You said: Larry McVoy wrote: I don't come here every month and ask for the GPL to be removed from some driver, that's essentially what you are doing and I think pretty much everyone is sick of it. T

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:14:43AM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > [long explanation which is summarized as "it's hard"] > So doing the work is one thing, getting a result within my lifetime would > be nice too. I understand the complexity you are facing. This may be hard for you to believe but we

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: (I just sent a similiar mail in private and didn't immediately realize it didn't went to lkml, so sorry, who gets it twice.) > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 03:13:48PM -0500, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > I think what people want here is the tree structure repres

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 12:22:39AM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > > You know, you could change all this. Instead of complaining that we > > are somehow hurting you, which virtually 100% of the readers know is > > nonsense, you could be producing an alternative answer which is better. > > Another sm

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 03:13:48PM -0500, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > Are you saying that it is now OK to write scripts that would bit bang > on > the bkbits http interface to fetch patches/comments with the purpose > of > populating an alternate scm? Andreas tried that a while ago but you > threatened

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:31:05 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > > Larry has said, write up a proposal for changes you want in bk. Send > > it to him for a quote. Come up with the cash and he will do the work. > > Here is a simple one: rest

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > Larry has said, write up a proposal for changes you want in bk. Send > it to him for a quote. Come up with the cash and he will do the work. Here is a simple one: restore the parent information in the gnupatch option as they were about a year ago visib

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: Larry, it's interesting how you try to distract from the main problem (which you don't mention with a single word) and instead continues to badmouth me. Let's take a look. > Short version: let's violate a license. Wrong, if I wanted to violate the li

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 12:17:48PM -0500, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > You know, you could change all this. Instead of complaining that we > > > are somehow hurting you, which virtually 100% of the readers know is >

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:24:06 -0500 (EST), Nicolas Pitre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Larry turned it down with the usual "we're'll fear you if we do that" > answer although I still have problems seeing why BK would be suplented > with that info available. The SCM problem is much much more than jus

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 12:17:48PM -0500, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > You know, you could change all this. Instead of complaining that we > > are somehow hurting you, which virtually 100% of the readers know is > > nonsense, you could be producing an alternati

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:17:48 -0500 (EST), Nicolas Pitre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > Larry, why can't you compete only on the tool instead of claiming > > exclusive rights on the test bench as well? > > Nic

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:30:54 EST, Nicolas Pitre said: > If I don't want to use a certain filesystem, I mount it and copy the > files over to another filesystem. What users are interested in are the > files themselves of course, and the efficiency with which the filesystem > handles those files

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:17:48 -0500 (EST), Nicolas Pitre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > Larry, why can't you compete only on the tool instead of claiming > exclusive rights on the test bench as well? Nicolas, Larry has not said he won't make the changes tha

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:06:02AM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > > So you've somehow managed to trick most kernel developers into > > granting you power over not only the BK history > > It's exactly the same as a file system. If you put some files into

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:06:02AM -0200, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > So you've somehow managed to trick most kernel developers into > granting you power over not only the BK history It's exactly the same as a file system. If you put some files into a file system does the file system creator owe you

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

El 09 Feb 2005 05:06:02 -0200, Alexandre Oliva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > So you've somehow managed to trick most kernel developers into > granting you power over not only the BK history, in such a way that > anyone willing to extract all the information available from the BK > repository and

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:58:22PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: > Kevin Puetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > erm, svk is cool and all, but it keeps a local repository mirror (not > > necessarily full I suppose, but usually it is). So it's *much* heavier > > on the client side than normal svn. Pays of

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Roman, Larry has a perfectly valid reason to call you a jerk, because > you are being one, and have been one for at least 50% of your posts > on this list over the last 2 years or more. Right this instant my > most fervent wish is for you to go get a j

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Kevin Puetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> If you use svk for the client side, there's >> (almost?) no overhead. >> >> Regards, Olaf. > > erm, svk is cool and all, but it keeps a local repository mirror (not > necessarily full I suppose, but usually it is). So it's *much*

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Feb 8, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry McVoy) wrote: > I think you are dreaming. You've gone from wanting enough information > to supposedly debug your source tree to being explicit about wanting to > recreate the entire BK history in a different system. > The answer is no, that's a clear vio

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tuesday 08 February 2005 21:57, Roman Zippel wrote: >Hi, > >On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: >> Write up a proposal of what you need. Send it to Larry and ask for >> a quote. Larry will probably even help you fill in things you >> missed in the proposal. Come to an agreement on terms for the

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Olaf Dietsche wrote: > Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I must test this...), plus 600 MB per working copy. > > If you use svk for the client side, there's > (almost?) no overhead. > > Regards, Olaf. erm, svk is cool and all, but it keeps a local repository

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 03:47:49AM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > Nice, Roman. All I need is a cooperating third party who is willing to > > give me your code under a different (albeit invalid) license. > > Short version: Bullshit. > Long versi

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 03:57:37 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > > > Write up a proposal of what you need. Send it to Larry and ask for a > > quote. Larry will probably even help you fill in things you missed in > > the proposal. Co

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > Write up a proposal of what you need. Send it to Larry and ask for a > quote. Larry will probably even help you fill in things you missed in > the proposal. Come to an agreement on terms for the proposal. Raise > the cash, send it to Larry, wait for the

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > Nice, Roman. All I need is a cooperating third party who is willing to > give me your code under a different (albeit invalid) license. Short version: Bullshit. Long version: See previous mails. bye, Roman - To unsubscribe from this list: send the li

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 03:35:37AM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > > > Larry has said he will do the work you want if you pay him. > > Usually I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I'd > prefer to know exactly, what I would get

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 03:35:37 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > > > Larry has said he will do the work you want if you pay him. > > Usually I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I'd > prefer to know exactly

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > Larry has said he will do the work you want if you pay him. Usually I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I'd prefer to know exactly, what I would get for the money. But as I said by now I know enough about this that I can do th

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 03:05:18 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The current problem is more serious and I want that bk users to understand > that. A large part of kernel history is currently practically locked into > bk. bk isn't doing what I need, so naturally I'm looking for al

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > I don't know how many years it was before people decided to > give up on the emacs vs. vi wars, but can we please put a more hasty > end to the bk license flamewars? Many thanks, It's not really the same, if it would be just about personal pr

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Roman, I suspect the most of the folks on LKML are sick and tired of this particular thread. Could you (and Larry) please take this off-line, please? Everyone who has an opinion on this matter is not likely to change their minds, so continued rehashing of old arguments is just noise IMHO

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > I think you are dreaming. You've gone from wanting enough information > > > to supposedly debug your source tree to being explicit about wanting to > > > recreate the entire BK history in a different system. The former is a > > > reasonable reque

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 06:17:30PM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > I think you are dreaming. You've gone from wanting enough information > > to supposedly debug your source tree to being explicit about wanting to > > recreate the entire BK histor

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Why should I pay for something, I could easily do myself in less time? > > Why does the phrase "Shut up and code..." suddenly wander through my mind??? You didn't really read what I explained in detail, didn't you? bye, Roman - To unsubscribe

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > I think you are dreaming. You've gone from wanting enough information > to supposedly debug your source tree to being explicit about wanting to > recreate the entire BK history in a different system. The former is a > reasonable request, I suppose, b

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:15:53 +0100, Roman Zippel said: > Why should I pay for something, I could easily do myself in less time? Why does the phrase "Shut up and code..." suddenly wander through my mind??? pgpO0Xrma93ma.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> Roman, if you want this so bad why don't you just pay Larry for the > three month's work? It's just not reasonable to ask someone to do work > for free that the only purpose of is to help someone clone their > system. That's an interesting idea, thanks, but we'd need both money and a new hire.

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Jon Smirl wrote: > Roman, if you want this so bad why don't you just pay Larry for the > three month's work? Why should I pay for something, I could easily do myself in less time? bye, Roman - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 04:43:44PM +0100, Stelian Pop wrote: > On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 03:38:41PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 08:38:48PM +0100, Stelian Pop wrote: > > > > Nope: he digs the bk-commit mailing list archives. > > > > > > > Interesting, I fergot about those

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:57:14 +0100 (CET), Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1. Is the kernel history locked into bk? Earlier Larry said this: On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:20:49 -0800, Larry McVoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Speaking from the out-BK point of view, what would really be nice > >

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> Since Red Hat, SuSE, IBM etc do a lot of work on such products, does > this mean that all the kernel hackers working for those companies have > a commercial BK license ? Licenses are a lot like signing a lease. Things are negotiable and we're reasonable people (contrary to public opinion). > T

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 03:38:41PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 08:38:48PM +0100, Stelian Pop wrote: > > > Nope: he digs the bk-commit mailing list archives. > > > > > Interesting, I fergot about those commit mails, thanks for remining > > me. > > > > I think those emails

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Roman Zippel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you know, there are other scm systems out > there? Once one studied a few of them, one basically also knows how bk > works and it certainly helps to put your "facts" into perspective. On the same line of ideas, a script that some people might find us

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 03:57:14PM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: > On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > [Larry continues to pull numbers out of his arse.] > > Out of sympathy to Al I cut the crap short. If you (or anyone else) really > want to know, contact me privately. > The 85% number i

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Sigh. Roman, I started to write a reply but in reading over the thread I realized you are just grinding your ax and have nothing new to say. Sorry, go bother someone else, I'm busy. -- --- Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com - To unsubscribe from this

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > [Larry continues to pull numbers out of his arse.] Out of sympathy to Al I cut the crap short. If you (or anyone else) really want to know, contact me privately. The 85% number is of secondary interest only anyway, my (undisputed) argumentation stil

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 02:45:22AM +0100, Roman Zippel wrote: [same wankfest] *plonk* If you ever need to send me mail - send it directly. Anything from you to l-k will be handled by /dev/null here. And it would better on saner topics not involving your crusades, TYSoFsckingM. - To unsubscribe

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> Bzzt. Larry, I will make this one very easy, so that even you can follow > it. Let's take a simple file: > > $ rlog REPORTING-BUGS,v | grep 'total revisions' > total revisions: 3; selected revisions: 3 > $ rlog REPORTING-BUGS,v | egrep '\(Logical change 1.[0-9]+\)' > (Logical change 1.31) > (

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > $ find -name \*,v -a ! -path ./BitKeeper\* -a ! -name ChangeSet,v | xargs > > rlog | egrep '\(Logical change 1.[0-9]+\)' | wc -l > > 187576 > > Bzzt. You forgot all the intial deltas which are not marked with the > logical change comment. And jus

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Ahh, Roman, always a joy to hear from you. > > CVS BitKeeper % in CVS > > file deltas 210,609 218,742 96% > > changsets 26,603 59,220 44% > > > > In other words, the CVS tree is missing no more than 4% of th

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > CVS BitKeeper [*] > > > > > Deltas 235,956 280,212 > > You need to rethink your math, you are way off. I'll explain it so that > the rest of the people can see this is just pure FUD. > > To make sur

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 08:38:48PM +0100, Stelian Pop wrote: > > Nope: he digs the bk-commit mailing list archives. > > > Interesting, I fergot about those commit mails, thanks for remining > me. > > I think those emails could provide the missing piece of the puzzle > and we could generate the mi

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 12:31:53AM +0100, Francois Romieu wrote: > Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : > [...] > > Now, suppose one of my patches introduced a problem. How can someone > > not using BK isolate the patch which introduced the problem ? All he > > can do is to back out the entire set of

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : [...] > Now, suppose one of my patches introduced a problem. How can someone > not using BK isolate the patch which introduced the problem ? All he > can do is to back out the entire set of patches, and the whole point > of having split the patch initialy into logi

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 08:22:48AM -0800, Roland Dreier wrote: > I don't pretend to understand all the tools or where information is > being lost, but I did use Stelian's HOWTO to make a subversion kernel > tree last night. I'm including log information for what happen to be > the two most recent

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 12:11:57PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > So, do you think you can sign up the usual suspects to being happy with > > > this answer? > > > > I'll let them answer themselves. > > You'll need to rally them to speak up or this is going nowhere. We > can't afford to spend e

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I must test this...), plus 600 MB per working copy. If you use svk for the client side, there's (almost?) no overhead. Regards, Olaf. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a mess

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 10:39:22AM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > I suppose what we could do is stick the BK changeset key into the > > > delta history so that if you really wanted to get the BK level > > > granularity you could. > > > > This would be nice indeed and I think it would end up all

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On 03/feb/05, at 11:45, Stelian Pop wrote: For now I'm keeping the latest stable 2.6 release of the files I need in the svn repo, then when I need to sync with the rest of the world, I get the latest -bk patch and see if there are some related changes. If so, I create a new branch, apply the -bk p

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> > So, do you think you can sign up the usual suspects to being happy with > > this answer? > > I'll let them answer themselves. You'll need to rally them to speak up or this is going nowhere. We can't afford to spend engineering dollars one unhappy person at a time to try and get you happy. W

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> > My good friend Stelian would have you believe that you are missing 50% > > of your data when in fact you are missing NONE of your data, you have > > ALL of your data in an almost the identical form. > > My good friend Larry would have you believe that I said something > I just never did. Go b

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

[Taking hpa out of CC:, I don't think he is interested anymore] On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 08:06:31AM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > You need to rethink your math, you are way off. I'll explain it so that > the rest of the people can see this is just pure FUD. There is no FUD in all what I said, fo

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Larry> You need to rethink your math, you are way off. I'll Larry> explain it so that the rest of the people can see this is Larry> just pure FUD. [...] Larry> The CVS tree has 96% of all the deltas to all your source Larry> files. 96%. Larry> My good friend Stelian

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 02:01:27PM +0100, Stelian Pop wrote: > On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 02:28:54PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > CVS BitKeeper [*] > > > > Deltas 235,956 280,212 > > > > > > Indeed, for now the differences are rather small. But wit

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 02:28:54PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > CVS BitKeeper [*] > > > Deltas 235,956 280,212 > > > > Indeed, for now the differences are rather small. But with more and > > more BK trees and more merges between them the proportion will raise.

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 01:08:35PM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > There is a section called "How do I generate 'proper' diffs ?" dealing > > with this. > > > > Stelian. > > -- > > Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Yep but the trick with --diff-cmd has the advantage of not chang

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Quoting r. Stelian Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Subject: Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto > > On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 12:18:27PM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > > > > Hi, Stelian! > > One thing everyone creating kernel patches with subversion > &

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 12:18:27PM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > Hi, Stelian! > One thing everyone creating kernel patches with subversion > must be aware of, is the fact that the subversion built-in diff command does > not understand the gnu diff -p flag (or indeed, any gnu diff flags at

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Hi, Stelian! One thing everyone creating kernel patches with subversion must be aware of, is the fact that the subversion built-in diff command does not understand the gnu diff -p flag (or indeed, any gnu diff flags at all, with the exception of -u, which is the default anyway). Thus you must use

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 12:20:49PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > > As Peter said, once every 6 hours is fine. Or even more often, what > > the heck, as I said in a previous post I don't think an incremental > > export is that much costly. It could be done at the same time as > > the -bkX patches...

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> I really don't want to start a new BK flamewar. You asked what could > you do and I said what would be nice to have. End of story. > > > - The idea that the granularity in CVS is unreasonable is pure > > I didn't say it was unreasonable, I said it could be better. Sure, everything can alwa

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

> As Peter said, once every 6 hours is fine. Or even more often, what > the heck, as I said in a previous post I don't think an incremental > export is that much costly. It could be done at the same time as > the -bkX patches... I'll see what I can do. > Speaking from the out-BK point of view, wh

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 07:34:59PM -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > (Thanks for the forward, Peter, I would have missed this). Sorry, I should have cc'ed you directly but I thought you would never miss a subject containing $(random scm tool) :) > As Peter said, we do exports from Linus' tree every 24

Re: [RFC] Linux Kernel Subversion Howto

Larry McVoy wrote: As Peter said, we do exports from Linus' tree every 24 hours. I can think of two things that we could do which might be useful to the non BK users: export more frequently (pretty questionable in my mind but it's no big deal to bump it up to twice or whatever) and/or export other

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