On 19 Jul 2002 07:54:03 +0300 Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My reading is different. Before, no one outside of government could do
> anythign with the results of the research, because there were patents
Only the government? What are you talking about? Look at some of the
examples I
Oron Peled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > because the patents were not licensed. Now they can. This is more
> > freedom, not less, or so it seems.
>
> It's more freedom -> for them (to sell the fruits of research).
> It's less freedom -> for everybody else (to use those results).
My reading is
OTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 9:28 AM
To: Ely Levy
Cc: linuxers, inc
Subject: Re: knesset meeting on open source
EL>> well think of it this way, some company spend 1000$ in testing to
EL>> find out that ABDCFGHE is the best order to put the letters
EL>> together then some
From: "Oleg Goldshmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I suspect Guy meant a different case. IIRC the CP vs. RG case was
> about a CP manager who went to do a very similar job for RG. CP sued
> but lost, the court saying that the freedom of occupation law
> superceded the non-compete clause the guy had i
EL>> well think of it this way, some company spend 1000$ in testing
EL>> to find out that ABDCFGHE is the best order to put the letters
EL>> together then some kid comes and see it. and say oh cool! lets
EL>> make a free software which does the same.
Very good. So the company can choose or to hid
Shachar Shemesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> There was, about that time, a ruling of Check Point vs. RadGuard (or
> was that the other way around? Being as it is that I was interviewing
> for both companies at the time the ruling was made, I tend not to
> remember).
>
> I don't recall that case
On 17 Jul 2002 14:55:47 +0300 Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> doubt that UC Berkeley could have made a DARPA project commercial in
> the 80s.
No, they couldn't.
> because the patents were not licensed. Now they can. This is more
> freedom, not less, or so it seems.
It's more freedo
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote about "Re: where has free software gone?
(was Re: knesset meeting on open source)":
> rightly so. Just don't be too optimistic. Incidentally, that
> particular contract was governed by the laws of the State of New
> York...
I
Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Actually, in some cases these terms do not cover something that is in
> the law already 'to remove doubt' but actually cover items that no court
> will uphold, especially in the non-competition section, in order to
> frighten you from doing something
Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 14:55, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> > This does not contradict my point: whether you are employed by a
> > company or by a university, your employer owns the IP you
> > produce.
>
> IANAL but I think this is not true automaticaly
guy keren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 16 Jul 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> >
> > Whatdo you mean? The funding sources are the same as always. The only
> > "sold to the industry" that comes to my mind is private ventures run
> > by academic staff, but that has always existed.
>
> if you rea
On 16 Jul 2002 15:21:58 +0300
Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What do you mean? The funding sources are the same as always.
What I mean, is that the "private" part of funding is gradually
becoming more prominent.
> > 2. More importantly, as academic institutions are striving to mak
Oron Peled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The basic division used to be:
> * Academy: does basic research, is funded by public (taxes)
> and the results are published and available to the
>public.
Also funded by tuition payments, and privately, partly by industr
On Tuesday 16 July 2002 13:29, Oron Peled wrote:
..
>If these criteria infiltrate the academic system (which is already
> happening) who will search in those long-term-and-not-so-promising
> directions?
>
The National Institute of Health (NIH) in the USA, invests prety large amounts
of money
: (+972) (4) 9095-732
Mobile: (053) 864-280
-Original Message-
From: Oron Peled [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Uri Bruck
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset meeting on
open source)
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:40:29 +0300 (EET DST)
Uri Bruck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salk developed the vaccine for polio while working for a university. He
> worked for a salary. The project was a joint project of several
> universities, and obviously had funding. As for giving away the vaccine,
FLAME MODE ON:
LOOK YOU BUCH OF BUGGERS - SNIP THE FRIGGING MULTI-LAYER NESTED ANSWERS
ALREADY? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU AT - PROMOTING LOCQUACITY?
FLAME MODE OFF:
Quoth Tzahi Fadida:
> Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created an AIDS
> cocktail. now, because it was so expensive
Quoth Moshe Zadka:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
[snips]
> > lets copy it and make it GPL, and ofcourse it takes him a lot less time
> >
> > that is prefectly ok thing to do?
>
> Yes. The person wh
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:31:21 +0300 (IDT)
Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yea but they should at least get payed for it once,
> IMHO there is a diffrence between making your own software in GPL
> and between taking a design which someone worked 400 hours on and copy it
> in 10 minutes
Have
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Tzahi Fadida wrote about "RE: where has free software gone? (was
Re: knesset meeting on open source)":
>...
> if we will kill all Jews there would be enough space to build a city.
>...
I'm invoking Godwin's Law [1] and declaring this threa
My2Nis.Com
* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
> -Original Message-
> From: Guy Baruch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; linux-il
> Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was
Tzahi Fadida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created an AIDS
> cocktail. now, because it was so expensive for them to create, they
> want a return in the short term, i.e.: 3-5 years. Taking your
> perspective, would also mean that 1 third from the t
ilto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:17 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: guy keren; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
> meeting on open source)
>
>
> Tzahi Fadida wrote:
>
> > Lets see if I under
Tzahi Fadida wrote:
> Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created an AIDS cocktail. now,
>because it was so expensive for them to create, they want a return in the short term,
>i.e.: 3-5 years. Taking your perspective, would also mean that 1 third from the third
>world can just
ttp://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of guy keren
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: Gilad Ben-Yossef
> Cc: Ely Levy; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: where has free
>but for hard problems the problem is much worse: just by being a sophisticated
>user of a non-trivial software project you can deduct major portions of the
>solutions being used, and perhaps more importantly, the questions asked in the
>original R&D process.
That is what the patenting system ex
Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The idea that ideas can be somehow owned is downright stupid,
Hmm... I wonder who came up with that idea, and who currently owns it.
I suspect the list of people and organizations and probably even
countries who became rich thanks to this idea is re
>Moshe Zadka wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
> >
> > Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
>
>Actually, the leeacher was Minix, so Linus falls under "HaGonev Mi-
>Ganav Patu
WHAHAHAHAHAHA
you are great Moshe. Awesome joke. too bad it's not so funny.
- Original Message -
From: "Moshe Zadka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "linuxers, inc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:31 AM
Subject: where has free software g
MAIL PROTECTED]
> > Technion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > My Cool Site: HTTP://WWW.My2Nis.Com
> > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
> >
> > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at
> http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
> >
> > > -Original Messag
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> well think of it this way,
> some company spend 1000$ in testing to find out that ABDCFGHE is the best
> order to put the letters together then some kid comes and see it.
> and say oh cool! lets make a free software which does the same.
>
n, 15 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> > Well I guess for nadav cross office is not a good example,
> > after all it' not FS;)
>
PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ely Levy
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:51 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
> meeting on open source)
>
>
> so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Ely Levy wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> Well I guess for nadav cross office is not a good example,
> after all it' not FS;)
Ely, I was using non-free software for years, from commercial versions
of Unix, a C compiler on a Commodor
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 11:51:24AM +0300, Ely Levy wrote:
> so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
> planing and designing,
> or as people suggested before months of living off saving and working full
> time on it.
> and then someone comes after all this efford and say cool
Moshe Zadka wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
>
> Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
Actually, the leeacher was Minix, so Linus falls under "HaGonev Mi-
Ganav Patur", and is inn
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
Like Stallman leeched gcc from AT&T labs?
Like Larry Wall leeched Perl from the UNIX utilities?
Like GIMP leeched from Photos
Well I guess for nadav cross office is not a good example,
after all it' not FS;)
anyhow it's hard making money from programing you think you find a nice
idea try to sell it and then some kids who are still in school or some
company whic doesn't care about money copy your idea only they put it
un
S: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Boris
> Gorelik (by way of Boris Gorelik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:22 AM
> To: Linux-IL mailing
By the way, look on http://212.143.66.226/index.htm
nice, isn't it?
On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:20, you wrote:
> It's taking place right now (12:20, sunday), and it's being broadcast
> online live!
>
> try this: http://212.143.66.226/meeting.asp?tid=37
>
> and if it doesn't work, through this:
> ht
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> > I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
> > unemployed friends all gone?
>
> Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
> while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you
At 01:32 15/07/2002 +0300, you wrote:
> > I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
> > unemployed friends all gone?
>
>Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
>while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you'll be
> I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
> unemployed friends all gone?
Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you'll be in
trouble..
We have a very interesting si
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
> unemployed friends all gone?
>
> With an investment of, say, 100,000 shekels, you can rent an appartment
> for a year, buy a few crappy computers and even employ someone with min
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Barak Kaufman wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> Oz-Tech is a company that is oriented in promoting linux to the small -medium
> business sector and supporting it ...
> unfortunatley it seems like it wont go anywhere since getting inves
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> > On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, "Nadav Har'El" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Nadav, y
2002 16:13, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open
source":
> > They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
>
> I would bet that if the government issued a tender for, say, $
On Sun, 2002-07-14 at 18:50, Orna Agmon wrote:
>
> Actually, there is a branch of a government organization which gets
> technical support from both Nadav Har'El and Compaq, and prefers Nadav any
> day of the week.
>
Shh! don't tell compaq or they'll request the IGLU server back...
:-))
--
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
[sniped]
>
> > > One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people
> > > in the goverment is very simple - there is no support for Linux in Israel
> > > when it comes to 24/7 support.
> >
> > Are you kidding me? If M.K. Eitan came
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> > > One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people
> > > in the goverment is very simple - thereis no support for Linux in Israel
> > > when it comes to 24/7 support.
> >
> > Are you kidding me? If M.K. Eitan came to you with
And what about the guarantees ("Arvooyot") money? you'll need to deposit at
least 1 million dollars deposit in the hands of the goverment.
Hetz
On Sunday 14 July 2002 16:13, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about "Re: kne
> > Costs a lot to whom?
> > To the goverment? I'm under a strict NDA due to my formal employement in
> > the ministry of finance, but I can assure you that the goverment pays WAY
> > LOWER then any commercial company in Israel. Maybe the army got the same
> > terms, don't know, but MS software co
Nadav Har'El wrote:
>
>
> spent in a different manner. Even if $3 million of that $5 million is
> still spent on commercial software, you could do wonders with that extra
> $2 million - such as hiring 20 top-notch programmers (for $100,000 a
> year)
> for writing open-source software for the g
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
I would bet that if the government issued a tender for, say, $500,000,
for Linux support, you'd suddenly find 10 comp
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> > 1. Commercial software costs a lot of money that in 90% of the cases
> > leaves the country as foreign currency and gives jobs to people abroad and
>..
>
> Costs a lot t
They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
If it would have been a person that could sign with them, then I would loved
to sign ;)
Hetz
On Sunday 14 July 2002 15:47, Guy Cohen wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 03:43:31PM +0300, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> > One of the most h
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 03:43:31PM +0300, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
> One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people in
> the goverment is very simple - there is no support for Linux in Israel when
> it comes to 24/7 support.
I'm a freelance (bunch of us out there), you wa
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, "Nadav Har'El" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Nadav, you're preaching to the choir. Why not CC Eitan in the future,
> and forwa
> 1. Commercial software costs a lot of money that in 90% of the cases
> leaves the country as foreign currency and gives jobs to people abroad and
> makes Bill Gates reacher than the State of Israel.
> On the other hand open-source software is basically free, and the costs
> that *are* i
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, "Nadav Har'El" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nadav, you're preaching to the choir. Why not CC Eitan in the future,
and forward him the e-mail you sent?
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the wo
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Orna Agmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So I made myself a snapshot, (yes, i stopped copying when they started
> discussing education), and it is available from
>
> http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon/protocol.html
Thanks a lot, Orna!
I have a couple of comments:
1. Anybody e
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about "Re: knesset meeting on open source":
> Today, only the Open Source advocates spoke and next time, the MS
> people will speak. That meeting should be very interesting, and I hope
> to see many of you commenting online du
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:59, Yehuda Drori wrote:
> On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
direct access to the protocol :
http://whatsup.org.il/article.php?sid=261
tal.
> hi..
>
> you can look it up at http://whatsup.org.il
> the relevant part of the protocol is there..
>
>
>
> --
> Y
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
hi..
you can look it up at http://whatsup.org.il
the relevant part of the protocol is there..
--
Yehuda Drori
http://whatsup.org.il
your Linux spot on the web in HEBREW
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
> Some one want to summaries?
I don't know how long they would keep it up there, since tid=37 seems like
a low number, and the page begins today.
So I made myself a snapshot, (yes, i stopped copying when they started
discussing education), and it is available from
http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon/protocol.html
On Sun, 14 J
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 01:17:27PM +0300, Guy Cohen wrote:
> Some one want to summaries?
There's an archive of the discussion here:
http://www.knesset.gov.il/committees/heb/online/protocol.asp?tid=37
As for summarizing, I only joined in the middle after hearing about it
on IRC (shame be on the p
Some one want to summaries?
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 12:20:55PM +0300, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote:
> It's taking place right now (12:20, sunday), and it's being broadcast
> online live!
>
> try this: http://212.143.66.226/meeting.asp?tid=37
>
> and if it doesn't work, through this:
> http://www.kness
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