On 20 Aug 2005, at 21:01, Erik Sandberg wrote:
2. When there is no good page break (such as in orchestral scores),
no effort
should be done to find the 'optimal' one, we should just be greedy
(this can
of course be done)
The book by Alfred Blatter, "Instrumentation/Orchestration", p. 18,
On Thursday 18 August 2005 14.13, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > Did you try \pageBreak? :) IMHO, perfect page breaks is one of the things
> > that
>
> \pageBreak, did we have that? :-)
>
> Yes, I tried, but I thought it was a lot of hassle. It would ease up
> things if lily pro
Graham Percival writes:
> I could do this. But should we keep the \override when it's not needed?
> For example,
>
> test/move-specific-text.ly:\override Stem #'direction = #1
>
> this could be done with \stemUp instead.
I don't have a strong preference, both are supported, and both can be
On 18-Aug-05, at 7:13 AM, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
Han-Wen Nienhuys writes:
all: could someone please get rid of -1, 1 for "up" and "down"? ;-),
hey, they'e named. Just use
#up
#down
and do this throughout the .lys in the distribution...
I could do this. But should we keep the \
On 18 Aug 2005, at 12:34, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Hans Aberg wrote:
A SCORE user, a professional engraver, expressed the wish for a
program that translates old SCORE files to whatever new program
they intend to shift to.
Who? Where? When?
I was only in the context of being convince
On 18 Aug 2005, at 06:41, Trevor Baca wrote:
I think that stealing (or courting?) the SCORE users is an excellent
idea; they're not in the slightest bit adverse to really learning the
most detailed internals of a program and would probably bring an
excellent eye to some of the very real problem
Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 2 downloads of the 2.6 release
wouldn't be nice if each one donated $1? :-)
> 1. apart from the "involved" people like you, how do you convince
> people to donate money? I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I think
> that the past two mon
Pedro Kröger wrote:
I propose we have a short campaign among lily users to raise some
money. That would help while we are working on the next major version
and thinking and working in medium and long time frame actions for
founding. I don't know how many people are here or in lily-users, but if
w
> "ES" == Erik Sandberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
ES> A fairly unrelated question is: Why are so many preferring
ES> PMX/MusiXTeX to Lily? I often have better chances finding good
ES> MusiXTeX scores on Werner Icking archive, than finding them on
ES> mutopia.
Not to discoura
Trevor Baca wrote:
Is this a conscious decision? It's easy to have a list archived
(including spam-protecting addresses) through mail-archive.com or gmane.org.
I'm sure it's not conscious; SCORE's mailing list is run out of the
generosity of Gordon's time and I'm sure it's probably a simple ma
On 8/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trevor Baca wrote:
> > On 8/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Erik Sandberg wrote:
> >>
> >>>I think we're talking about different things: you're talking about how to
> >>>convince them, I just suggested what we coul
On 8/18/05, Pedro Kröger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trevor Baca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > AFAIK, key-value pairs didn't exist in the late 70s when Leland
> > started development (or maybe they did; anyway, they didn't make it
> > into the program).
>
> I believe they did exist (*cough*
Han-Wen Nienhuys writes:
>> all: could someone please get rid of -1, 1 for "up" and "down"? ;-),
>
> hey, they'e named. Just use
>
>#up
>#down
and do this throughout the .lys in the distribution...
--
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www
Trevor Baca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> AFAIK, key-value pairs didn't exist in the late 70s when Leland
> started development (or maybe they did; anyway, they didn't make it
> into the program).
I believe they did exist (*cough* lisp *cough* :-))
> To use SCORE you literally have to memorize t
Trevor Baca wrote:
On 8/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Erik Sandberg wrote:
I think we're talking about different things: you're talking about how to
convince them, I just suggested what we could try to learn by talking to
them.
Certainly; however, learning how to engrav
On 8/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trevor Baca wrote:
> > Just mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; the list is run by Gordon Callon in
> > Canada. Quite unfortunately there are no list archives :-( but, quite
> > happily, the list is responsive, open and professional (much like our
>
On 8/18/05, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > I think we're talking about different things: you're talking about how to
> > convince them, I just suggested what we could try to learn by talking to
> > them.
>
> Certainly; however, learning how to engrave is not
Erik Sandberg wrote:
Did you try \pageBreak? :) IMHO, perfect page breaks is one of the things that
\pageBreak, did we have that? :-)
Yes, I tried, but I thought it was a lot of hassle. It would ease up
things if lily produced line breaks in places where a page break is
sensible.
--
Han-W
Hi,
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > The biggest obstacle to SCORE users probably is the fast changing syntax.
> > They _need_ a reliable format.
>
> I'm almost certain they don't. SCORE for publication material. Once music is
> published, there is li
Hi,
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Pedro Kröger wrote:
> Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The biggest obstacle to SCORE users probably is the fast changing syntax.
> > They _need_ a reliable format.
>
> I know sometimes it's a PITA to have the format changing all the time,
> but to
On Thursday 18 August 2005 13.54, Pedro Kröger wrote:
> Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Can we watch the language? This is an open forum, with publicly
> > accessible archives, probably with SCORE users reading along. There's
> > nothing to be "stolen".
>
> you are right. I'm the o
[flup to lily-devel]
Peter Teeson wrote:
I've been lurking here so I may have missed it. But anyway here is my
question.
WRT fast changing syntax - do we have, or is it feasible/possible to
have, a formal grammar for the lily language?
I.E. formal in the mathematical sense?
Or are things still
Erik Sandberg wrote:
I think we're talking about different things: you're talking about how to
convince them, I just suggested what we could try to learn by talking to
them.
Certainly; however, learning how to engrave is not a top prority for me.
I usually just stare at well engraved scores. A
Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Pedro Kröger wrote:
>>
>> I don't know how many people are here or in lily-users, but if
>> we could get 100 people to contribute $20 for 6 months, [...]
>
> I am ready to do that.
of course I'm too.
As I said before, I use
On Thursday 18 August 2005 11.56, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > This makes it hard for us to steal the SCORE experts right now. I think
> > it's too difficult to do this kind of tweaks in lilypond right now, and
> > the tweaks will break after each new version. (however, I don'
On Thursday 18 August 2005 11.52, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> > So it should be clear by now where I stand: I think it's an obvious
> > transition for SCORE users to start moving over the Lily. They're
> > reluctant to give up the tool, of course, because of its
> > sophistication, but I think that l
Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Contrary to Han-Wen, I don´t believe that the tweaking in Lily is too
> cumbersome (i.e. not direct enough). I believe that many SCORE users would
> be glad to have less to tweak in a single piece, but have the option to
> set up global tweaking
Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Can we watch the language? This is an open forum, with publicly
> accessible archives, probably with SCORE users reading along. There's
> nothing to be "stolen".
you are right. I'm the one who should apologize since I started this
"stealing" thing.
Johannes Schindelin wrote:
The biggest obstacle to SCORE users probably is the fast changing syntax.
They _need_ a reliable format.
I'm almost certain they don't. SCORE for publication material. Once
music is published, there is little need to run the .lys again.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAI
Erik Sandberg wrote:
As you say, it could be useful to start a constructive dialogue with the SCORE
folks, to
(a) see what it would require (in terms of improved program design) to make
them join us.
(b) get inspiration from their engraving expertise.
I found a nice EPS-file advertising wha
Erik Sandberg wrote:
Once you've parsed / tweaked your .pmx, you can read the modified file
back into SCORE directly. This .pmx format gives the ability to write
extremely sophisticated editing macros (or tweak algorithmically, if
you like).
This makes it hard for us to steal the SCORE experts
Hi,
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Erik Sandberg wrote:
> On Thursday 18 August 2005 06.41, Trevor Baca wrote:
>
> As you say, it could be useful to start a constructive dialogue with the
> SCORE folks, to
>
> (a) see what it would require (in terms of improved program design) to
> make them join us.
>
>
Hans Aberg wrote:
A SCORE user, a professional engraver, expressed the wish for a program
that translates old SCORE files to whatever new program they intend to
shift to.
Who? Where? When?
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
LilyPond Software Design
Erik Sandberg wrote:
This makes it hard for us to steal the SCORE experts right now. I think it's
too difficult to do this kind of tweaks in lilypond right now, and the tweaks
will break after each new version. (however, I don't know enough about
That's not true. However, I don't guarantee th
Trevor Baca wrote:
I think that stealing (or courting?) the SCORE users is an excellent
idea; they're not in the slightest bit adverse to really learning the
most detailed internals of a program and would probably bring an
excellent eye to some of the very real problems we're tackling right
no
On Thursday 18 August 2005 03.18, Pedro Kröger wrote:
> Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I wouldn't worry about that. I haven't been afraid of large
> > refactorings in the past (in fact, we have a very big one -- possibly
> > the biggest in the history of lily -- coming up).
>
> j
On Thursday 18 August 2005 06.41, Trevor Baca wrote:
> No, no, not to worry: the SCORE native format .mus (not the same as
> the Finale .mus) *is* binary ... but there's this magic cleartext
> format ending in .pmx. From the SCORE UI you can turn *any* file into
> .pmx and read, parse, tweak to you
Hi,
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Pedro Kröger wrote:
> Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > We could steal the users directly from there... But for this to
> > happen, we would have to reverse engineer the SCORE format.
>
> hum, it's a binary format right? I've forgotten that.
I once
On 8/17/05, Pedro Kröger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > AFAIK SCORE was developed by a single person, in FORTRAN,
>
> ha! that's something.
It's true: SCORE is the work of Leland Smith, now professor (emeritus)
of music at Stanford. SCORE was o
Hi,
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Pedro Kröger wrote:
>
> I don't know how many people are here or in lily-users, but if
> we could get 100 people to contribute $20 for 6 months, [...]
I am ready to do that.
> Is SCORE still been developed? I remember it used to be *really*
> expensive ($500-1000). Hum,
Johannes Schindelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> AFAIK SCORE was developed by a single person, in FORTRAN,
ha! that's something.
> Also, he was not very forthcoming with information about internals.
yeah, I didn't think so.
> If my memory serves me, there is a SCORE list.
yep, here is:
ht
Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I wouldn't worry about that. I haven't been afraid of large
> refactorings in the past (in fact, we have a very big one -- possibly
> the biggest in the history of lily -- coming up).
just curious, which one is that?
> The real worry is a financi
[flup to lily-devel]
Hans Aberg wrote:
both simplifying authoring and the input format. But TeX was developed
once, too. Its author got tired, putting the lid on further
development, having the copyright. It could happen with LilyPond, too,
if one arrives the point where one has the reache
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