Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

Quoting McCoy Smith (mc...@lexpan.law): > So the claim that Josh or anyone from OSI has the ability to give > better data than that which the election results page shows everyone > (or at least everyone eligible to vote) would seem to be false. Just to be clear in case there's confusion, such cla

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

My ears were burning. To confirm that I have no special information -- the data I provided was read directly from the Helios election results page, which all voters have access to. Josh Simmons (he/him), VP at Open Source Initiative (Tax ID 91-2037395) @joshsimmons

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

From: License-discuss On Behalf Of Pamela Chestek Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 9:55 AM To: license-discuss@lists.opensource.org Subject: Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements? On 3/18/2020 12:46 PM, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Tob

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020, Tobie Langel wrote: Yeah, I wasn't clear enough, sorry. I believe the OSI should seek to be broadly representative of the overall open source community and the broader population which is affected by open source. With a voting membership that is in the hundreds, I don't thi

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On 3/18/2020 12:46 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Tobie Langel (to...@unlockopen.com): > >> The math here assumes voters only cast a single vote, which isn't how this >> election works. > No, sorry, I made no such assumption. > >> Afaik the 35% number Coraline shared was based on data provided b

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

Quoting Tobie Langel (to...@unlockopen.com): > The math here assumes voters only cast a single vote, which isn't how this > election works. No, sorry, I made no such assumption. > Afaik the 35% number Coraline shared was based on data provided by Josh. I'm sorry, but to reiterate, Ms. Ehmke's

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020, Russell Nelson wrote: On 3/18/20 10:27 AM, Tobie Langel wrote: If the goal is to deter the conversation from happening here, it’s quite effective. If it’s not, please be aware that this is what if feels like to those that are on the receiving end of this. Y

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 4:44 PM McCoy Smith wrote: > > > I’m pretty sure that the Helios system is designed to keep voter and vote > information secret, other than the ultimate outcome. So I’m pretty sure > Josh, or anyone, could not give any data different than the data posted on > the Helios r

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

From: License-discuss On Behalf Of Tobie Langel Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 2:27 PM To: license-discuss@lists.opensource.org Subject: Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements? The math here assumes voters only cast a single vote, wh

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 11:39 AM Russell Nelson wrote: > there is no common ground between Ethical Software (If I don't like you, > you can't use my software) and Open Source (even if I don't like you, you > can use my software). > Distinguo. There is *no* inconsistency that I can see between t

[License-discuss] Moderator Message

The moderators are sadly once again having to intervene on the list to maintain an environment where everyone can bring their views without fear of being harassed. All views on licensing from all parts so the community of open source and free software communities pay be expressed here when they are

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed Mar 18, 2020 at 4:50 PM, Tobie Langel wrote: > Of course, the OSI can decide to ignore the broader open source > community by deciding that only the community that agrees with its > definition of open source is relevant. I would like to again point out that the ethical source community is n

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 3:51 PM Russell Nelson wrote: > On 3/17/20 6:14 PM, Tobie Langel wrote: > > If OSI is to be the custodian of open source, it needs to be > representative of the open source community at large. Not based on a winner > takes model, which is, by definition, not representative

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On 3/18/20 10:27 AM, Tobie Langel wrote: If the goal is to deter the conversation from happening here, it’s quite effective. If it’s not, please be aware that this is what if feels like to those that are on the receiving end of this. Yes! The goal is to deter the conversation, because there is

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 3:32 PM Gil Yehuda via License-discuss < license-discuss@lists.opensource.org> wrote: > I don't understand the point that you are trying to make in your recent > posts (about how the OSI election works and how the "winner takes" model is > not representative of voter sentim

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

I would also like to point out that Caroline engaged in a marketing campaign to try and bring voters in from her community, with no other candidates did so far as I'm aware. This still didn't work, and the ethical source candidates still lost the vote. This discussion is no different from disgrunt

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

Last year I ran for the OSI board on a platform of changing OSI board elections (and defending open source against predatory licensing.) One board member called it "probably the funniest platform I've seen." Here I am feeling like Cassandra of Troy! At-large approval voting allows a winning bloc t

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On 3/17/20 6:14 PM, Tobie Langel wrote: If OSI is to be the custodian of open source, it needs to be representative of the open source community at large. Not based on a winner takes model, which is, by definition, not representative. Sure, but Ethical Software isn't Open Source. That's what w

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 09:52 Henrik Ingo wrote: > But why would you sum up Coraline and Tobie? The most likely explanation > is that the same set of people (11%) voted for both of them, if they wanted > to support ethical source. > Summing up those two numbers indeed doesn't make sense. As, afa

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

Tobie, I don't understand the point that you are trying to make in your recent posts (about how the OSI election works and how the "winner takes" model is not representative of voter sentiment). Let me explain where my confusion about your message is centered: Coraline has said many times that she

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 02:11 Russell Nelson wrote: > The fact that "ethical" software has no place at OSI? Well, it doesn't. If > it did, then she would have been elected. > With all due respect, I really feel like this is the wrong framing. If the OSI wants to be representative of the open so

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 14:22 Russell Nelson wrote: On 3/18/20 4:51 AM, Henrik Ingo wrote: > > But why would you sum up Coraline and Tobie? > > Because Coraline is trying to bolster Coarline's poor showing in the OSI > elections by double-counting the 11% of OSI membership who voted for > both Co

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 23:48 Gil Yehuda via License-discuss < license-discuss@lists.opensource.org> wrote: > Moreover, the system is set up so that voters neglect to vote for people > they don't want to see seated. > That would be true of other forms of voting, such as single transferable vote (

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:08 PM McCoy Smith wrote: > From which, I would conclude, the winners got substantial majorities of > the voters, and no one else did, even if we combine candidates based on > platforms. So they really deserve a seat at the table; everyone else, > probably not. > If OSI

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 10:21 PM Rick Moen wrote: > FWIW, Ms. Ehmke's blog post states that she and Tobie Langel 'did > collectively > secure 35% of the votes from the membership', but quick calculation[1] > using the numbers at https://opensource.org/node/1049 suggests this > statistic is 11%.

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On 3/18/20 4:51 AM, Henrik Ingo wrote: But why would you sum up Coraline and Tobie? Because Coraline is trying to bolster Coarline's poor showing in the OSI elections by double-counting the 11% of OSI membership who voted for both Coraline and Tobie. Coraline thinks that Coraline should get

Re: [License-discuss] How can we as a community help empower authors outside license agreements?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:23 AM McCoy Smith wrote: > If you go just on the cumulative numbers, there were 1,061 votes cast, so > (82+36)/1,061 = 11.1%, as you note. > > If you go to the ballot tracker ( > https://vote.heliosvoting.org/helios/elections/d93efdc8-5c7e-11ea-9fd6-dac1e2b1446f/voters/