Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-21 Thread bfo
tion.org/Static-src-analysis-of-LibreOffice-tp3998343p4002783.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-21 Thread John Smith
All, Not a new report (yet), but the clang analyzer reports have found a permanent home at this location : http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/clang_reports/ Regards, John Smith. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-15 Thread John Smith
Hi, Well I finally managed to do a 'scan-build' src analysis of LibreOffice ~master, using clang as the compiler instead of GCC. There still are a few files where analysis failed and clang crashed, but those are only a few (and I submitted a bug report for that at http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cg

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-15 Thread Terrence Enger
ew this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Static-src-analysis-of-LibreOffice-tp3998343p4001511.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-15 Thread Miklos Vajna
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 02:58:39PM +0200, Michael Stahl wrote: > and hsqldb and saxon are special cases where we almost always have to > use the internal ones; maybe --with-system-libs should not affect those... Agreed, I just did so in master. ___ Lib

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-08 Thread Jesso Murugan
Hi John, > it seems like major overkill for something like static html > pages to me. I was just trying to solve your space and bandwidth problem. :-) Hosting it directly *is* the best solution. But, anyway the report with all the 3rd parties are not needed as others pointed out. - Jesso _

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-08 Thread John Smith
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: > Yes that is possible with github. > Still, it seems like major overkill for something like static html pages to me. You dont really need version control here, right ? People are only gonna be interested in seeing the 'latest' analysis of the new

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-08 Thread Joop Kiefte
Yes that is possible with github. 2012/8/8 John Smith : > On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Jesso Murugan > wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> If you have problems with space you can put the files as such in github.com, >> or I'll >> host it somewhere. >> >> Regards, >> Jesso Clarence >> Motah Program, KACS

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-08 Thread John Smith
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Jesso Murugan wrote: > Hi John, > > If you have problems with space you can put the files as such in github.com, > or I'll > host it somewhere. > > Regards, > Jesso Clarence > Motah Program, KACST > http://www.motah.org.sa Hi Jesso, Thank you for your very kind a

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-08 Thread Jesso Murugan
Hi John, If you have problems with space you can put the files as such in github.com, or I'll host it somewhere. Regards, Jesso Clarence Motah Program, KACST http://www.motah.org.sa ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://l

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread John Smith
If people dont mind, im going to delete (due to limited space reasons) 'http://lbalbalba.x90x.net/clang-analyzer/libreoffice/' which contains the reports with the 3rd party code included (which people didnt seem interested in anyway). Ill leave the other reports alone, which used the system libs, l

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread John Smith
> > But it looks like I can do "scan-build --use-cc=clang > --use-c++=clang++ ", im trying that but I still get GCC for > compilation... Will investigate later, gotta go now. > Well now when I do: scan-build --use-cc=/usr/local/bin/clang --use-c++=/usr/local/bin/clang++ \ -o /tmp/foo ./configure

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread John Smith
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > On 08/07/2012 10:40 AM, John Smith wrote: >> >> It's not clang/clang++ that is executed here: it's the >> ccc-analyzer/c++-analyzer. It sits in front of the compiler you use, >> which is still GCC in this case. After ccc-analyzer/c++-analy

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 08/07/2012 10:40 AM, John Smith wrote: It's not clang/clang++ that is executed here: it's the ccc-analyzer/c++-analyzer. It sits in front of the compiler you use, which is still GCC in this case. After ccc-analyzer/c++-analyzer is done with the analysis, it passes all parameters and arguments

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread John Smith
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Lubos Lunak wrote: > > It doesn't make much sense to analyze with Clang but compile with GCC. > The idea here is that you can use your existing build setup 'as-is' without being forced to change your build setup like your compiler, Makefiles, etc. And still be abl

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread Lubos Lunak
On Tuesday 07 of August 2012, John Smith wrote: > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > > So I am not sure why your LO build tries to use --std=gnu++0x at all. > > > > > > Stephan > > It's not clang/clang++ that is executed here: it's the > ccc-analyzer/c++-analyzer. It sits i

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread John Smith
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > On 08/06/2012 09:57 AM, John Smith wrote: >> >> I submitted a bug report : http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=13530 > > > Hm, -std=gnu++11 should be disabled for Clang on Fedora 17 (i.e., against > GCC 4.7 headers) in LO due to >

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-07 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 08/06/2012 09:57 AM, John Smith wrote: I submitted a bug report : http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=13530 Hm, -std=gnu++11 should be disabled for Clang on Fedora 17 (i.e., against GCC 4.7 headers) in LO due to

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:57 AM, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: >> >> That smells like "On recent Fedora 17, the included Clang (3.0) is unusable >> due to clang++ chokes on . However, a home-built Clang 3.1 works >> fine." >> (

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > > In any case, such stuff should be something we can filter out in some way > (post-processing the data -- is it only available as HTML, or also in some > other format?), so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just wanted to note > it down

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > > That smells like "On recent Fedora 17, the included Clang (3.0) is unusable > due to clang++ chokes on . However, a home-built Clang 3.1 works > fine." > (

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > On 08/03/2012 03:42 PM, John Smith wrote: >>> >>> - Still lots of "external" stuff, dmake, libxmlsec/unxlngi6.pro, >>> workdir/unxlngi6.pro/LexTarget, ... >>> >> Well, the analyzer simply follows/precedes whatever you tell 'make' to >> do.

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > On 08/03/2012 06:07 PM, John Smith wrote: >> >> >> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-redhat-linux/4.7.0/../../../../include/c++/4.7.0/type_traits:256:39: >> error: use of undeclared identifier '__float128' >> struct __is_floating_point_helper<__float1

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 08/03/2012 06:07 PM, John Smith wrote: /usr/lib/gcc/i686-redhat-linux/4.7.0/../../../../include/c++/4.7.0/type_traits:256:39: error: use of undeclared identifier '__float128' struct __is_floating_point_helper<__float128> That smells like "On recent Fedora 17, the included Clang (3.0) is

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-06 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 08/03/2012 03:42 PM, John Smith wrote: - Still lots of "external" stuff, dmake, libxmlsec/unxlngi6.pro, workdir/unxlngi6.pro/LexTarget, ... Well, the analyzer simply follows/precedes whatever you tell 'make' to do. So if the build includes 'make dbuild', then that *will* not only get build,

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > >> and hsqldb and saxon are special cases where we almost always have to >> use the internal ones; maybe --with-system-libs should not affect >> those... > > in which way are they special ? > saxon comes in a few different versions: free open

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Enrico Weigelt
> most likely the versions on the system are too old for LO. e.g. we > depend on the mdds 0.6 that was just released a week ago. I could provide packages for Ubuntu and Debian, if someone likes. Just drop me a note (personally, not through the list). > and hsqldb and saxon are special cases whe

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Noel Grandin wrote: > > On 2012-08-03 15:42, John Smith wrote: >> >> Well, the analyzer simply follows/precedes whatever you tell 'make' to >> do. So if the build includes 'make dbuild', then that *will* not only > > Is there not some kind of path based post-filter

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > > - Truckloads of "Other Error": "The analyzer had problems processing the > following files" > Yes, but all of them actually look exactly like this one here below. (and I only uploaded the 1st one of them in the report). 'Other errors' usu

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Noel Grandin
On 2012-08-03 15:42, John Smith wrote: Well, the analyzer simply follows/precedes whatever you tell 'make' to do. So if the build includes 'make dbuild', then that *will* not only Is there not some kind of path based post-filter for the analyser? So we can tell it to filter out errors belong to

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Lubos Lunak wrote: > > I think the analyzer runs much longer than plain compilation, and as long as > #18 is the only tinderbox for that "platform", I'd like it to run fast. If > needed, a separate tinderbox elsewhere should do. Especially given that the > static a

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > > - Still lots of "external" stuff, dmake, libxmlsec/unxlngi6.pro, > workdir/unxlngi6.pro/LexTarget, ... > Well, the analyzer simply follows/precedes whatever you tell 'make' to do. So if the build includes 'make dbuild', then that *will* n

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Lubos Lunak
On Friday 03 of August 2012, Michael Meeks wrote: > On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 09:00 +0200, John Smith wrote: > > Thanks for all the help and tips everyone provided. I finally have > > successfully run the clang analyzer on LibreOffice ~master with > > '--with-system-libs'. The only exceptions being: ..

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 08/03/2012 09:00 AM, John Smith wrote: I have uploaded the generated report here: http://lbalbalba.x90x.net/clang-analyzer/libreoffice-with-system-libs/ Please do note that the C++ *analyzer* (not the compiler) is still very much regarded as a 'work-in-progress' at this point, so you are lik

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Michael Meeks wrote: > >> PS2: I would have loved to mention the exact revision of 'master' I >> ran this test on, but Im really new to git. Is there a git command >> that can provide a human readable/meaningful revision number, like you >> can get with 'svn info' ?

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Michael Meeks wrote: > > I guess we'd want to do that build regularly; perhaps doing some > tweaking to make it part of Lubos' clang / tinderbox build might be a > good long-term solution ? > Hrm. On second thought, maybe we should wait to see if the reports

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Olivier Hallot
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Like unusedcode.easy, your file could be placed in the git tree root and updated periodically. Just a suggestion. regards Em 03-08-2012 08:19, John Smith escreveu: > Glad you like it. Yes, a permanent regular solution is a good idea, > but i have

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
Glad you like it. Yes, a permanent regular solution is a good idea, but i have no idea onhow to intergrate it in your current solution. On 8/3/12, Michael Meeks wrote: > Hi John, > > On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 09:00 +0200, John Smith wrote: >> Thanks for all the help and tips everyone provided. I fin

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi John, On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 09:00 +0200, John Smith wrote: > Thanks for all the help and tips everyone provided. I finally have > successfully run the clang analyzer on LibreOffice ~master with > '--with-system-libs'. The only exceptions being: Great :-) > I have uploaded the generate

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-08-03 Thread John Smith
Hi, Thanks for all the help and tips everyone provided. I finally have successfully run the clang analyzer on LibreOffice ~master with '--with-system-libs'. The only exceptions being: 1.) '--with-system-saxon=no' Because the open source HE variant of saxon does not have all the necessary feature

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-31 Thread David Tardon
Hi, On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 08:03:00AM +0200, John Smith wrote: > Well, after a lot of tweaking, I almost have 'configure' working with > '--with-system-libs' now, except for saxon. > > Running configure with my system saxon gives me : configure: error: > saxontest could not be compiled, non-func

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-31 Thread John Smith
Well, after a lot of tweaking, I almost have 'configure' working with '--with-system-libs' now, except for saxon. Running configure with my system saxon gives me : configure: error: saxontest could not be compiled, non-functional saxon jar Even though I have saxon installed. I cant figure out what

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-31 Thread David Tardon
Hi, On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 03:08:04PM +0200, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Michael Stahl wrote: > > On 30/07/12 14:50, John Smith wrote: > >> > >> If someone knows how to fix that: let me know > >> If it's not really a big deal: Ill do a analysis of libreoffice this way >

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-31 Thread David Tardon
Hi, On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 01:42:44PM +0200, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Tor Lillqvist wrote: > >> So if there > >> is a way to configure LO (configure --without-foo --without-bar, or > >> something) to not make it compile all the 3rd party stuff, > > > > --with-system-

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread bfo
iew this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Static-src-analysis-of-LibreOffice-tp3998343p3998486.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Stephan Bergmann
On 07/30/2012 03:45 PM, John Smith wrote: [javac] Compliance level '1.5' is incompatible with source level '1.7'. A compliance level '1.7' or better is required Adding the configure switch --with-java-target-version=1.5 might help. Stephan ___

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
PS: build_error.log gives me this : log for /usr/local/src/libreoffice/hsqldb Buildfile: /usr/local/src/libreoffice/hsqldb/unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/hsqldb/build/build.xml init: javaversion7: javaversion6: javaversion4: javaversion2: -prepare: codeswitcher: [javac] /usr/local/src/lib

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
Ok, so I now scan/build using : scan-build ./configure --with-system-hsqldb=no --with-system-saxon=no --with-system-libs scan-build make But I get no reports wjhatsoever, just this : - Entering /usr/local/src/libreoffice/cli_ur

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Michael Stahl wrote: > On 30/07/12 14:50, John Smith wrote: >> >> If someone knows how to fix that: let me know >> If it's not really a big deal: Ill do a analysis of libreoffice this way now. > > most likely the versions on the system are too old for LO. e.g. we

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Michael Stahl
On 30/07/12 14:50, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Miklos Vajna wrote: >> >> Did you run sudo yum-builddep libreoffice already? >> > Thanks! that helped a lot. But I still have to do > " ./configure --with-system-hsqldb=no --with-system-saxon=no > --with-system-mdds=no --with-

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Miklos Vajna wrote: > > Did you run sudo yum-builddep libreoffice already? > Thanks! that helped a lot. But I still have to do " ./configure --with-system-hsqldb=no --with-system-saxon=no --with-system-mdds=no --with-system-libs " for configure to be satisfied, eve

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Miklos Vajna
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 01:42:44PM +0200, John Smith wrote: > but rpm -qa gives me : > > db4-cxx-4.8.30-10.fc17.i686 > db4-devel-4.8.30-10.fc17.i686 > db4-4.8.30-10.fc17.i686 > > I have no idea whats going on, or how to fix it... > [ running Fedora 17 ] Reading http://www.libreoffice.org/devel

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Tor Lillqvist wrote: >> So if there >> is a way to configure LO (configure --without-foo --without-bar, or >> something) to not make it compile all the 3rd party stuff, > > --with-system-libs. How well that works (how many of the 3rd-party > libs you still need to

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Tor Lillqvist
> So if there > is a way to configure LO (configure --without-foo --without-bar, or > something) to not make it compile all the 3rd party stuff, --with-system-libs. How well that works (how many of the 3rd-party libs you still need to compile) depends on your distro and version. --tml ___

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, John Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Noel Grandin wrote: >> >> On 2012-07-30 11:50, John Smith wrote: >>> Maybe. But even so, bugs in 3rd party software that LibreOffice >>> depends on, potentially means problems in LibreOffice, right ? >>>

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Noel Grandin wrote: > > On 2012-07-30 11:50, John Smith wrote: >>> >> Maybe. But even so, bugs in 3rd party software that LibreOffice >> depends on, potentially means problems in LibreOffice, right ? >> > > Yeah, but it's a lot more painful working on that stuff b

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Noel Grandin
On 2012-07-30 11:50, John Smith wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Olivier Hallot wrote: On a second look, most of the issues are with 3rd parties code (nss, openldap, berkeleydb, etc...) Maybe. But even so, bugs in 3rd party software that LibreOffice depends on, potentially means prob

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Olivier Hallot
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Em 30-07-2012 06:50, John Smith escreveu: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Olivier Hallot > wrote: >> >> On a second look, most of the issues are with 3rd parties code (nss, >> openldap, berkeleydb, etc...) >> > Maybe. But even so, bugs in 3rd

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Olivier Hallot wrote: > > On a second look, most of the issues are with 3rd parties code (nss, > openldap, berkeleydb, etc...) > Maybe. But even so, bugs in 3rd party software that LibreOffice depends on, potentially means problems in LibreOffice, right ?

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Olivier Hallot
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 HI Great tool indeed. Thanks for the work On a second look, most of the issues are with 3rd parties code (nss, openldap, berkeleydb, etc...) ATB Olivier Em 29-07-2012 15:20, John Smith escreveu: > Hi, > > > I have been playing around with the ll

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread John Smith
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Michael Meeks wrote: > > So - if you send a few patches to fix some of the issues - I'll get > you > a freedesktop commit account which comes with shell access & some web > space - how does that sound ? :-) [ modulo anyone wanting to add this to > the cla

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-30 Thread Michael Meeks
Hi John, On Sun, 2012-07-29 at 21:33 +0200, John Smith wrote: > But it looks like there still is a need for a place to store the html > output reports somewhere ? I have (limited) space on Wow :-) it's nice to have that publicly available. > http://lbalbalba.x90x.net/clang-analyzer/libre

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-29 Thread John Smith
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:21 PM, julien2412 wrote: > There's a bug tracker about it, see: > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39596 > > Julien > Thank you, I was completely unaware of that. But it looks like there still is a need for a place to store the html output reports somewhere ?

Re: Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-29 Thread julien2412
There's a bug tracker about it, see: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39596 Julien -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Static-src-analysis-of-LibreOffice-tp3998343p3998355.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabbl

Static src analysis of LibreOffice

2012-07-29 Thread John Smith
Hi, I have been playing around with the llvm/clang static source code analyzer (http://clang.llvm.org/get_started.html) for a while now, and thought it might be fun and beneficial to run the analyzer on the libreoffice ('master') source code. For those interested the results can be found here :