[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread John Mattsson
Hi, I think IKEv2 should register code points for FrodoKEM and BIKE/HQC (depending on which one NIST standardizes). I think it is important with backups to ML-KEM. The importance of cryptographic agility has been emphasized by several US agencies. A necessity for cryptographic agility is to hav

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Watson Ladd
On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:07 AM John Mattsson wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think IKEv2 should register code points for FrodoKEM and BIKE/HQC > (depending on which one NIST standardizes). I think it is important with > backups to ML-KEM. The importance of cryptographic agility has been > emphasized

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Loganaden Velvindron
Thanks. I can also see that Classic Mceliece was also deemed as "acceptable". Projects using it include Rosenpass, MullvadVPN, and my understanding is that Ericsson is also planning to adopt it ? Simon started working on an I-D for Classic MCeliece. On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 at 23:37, Michael Osborne

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Loganaden Velvindron
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 at 17:05, John Mattsson wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think IKEv2 should register code points for FrodoKEM and BIKE/HQC > (depending on which one NIST standardizes). I think it is important with > backups to ML-KEM. The importance of cryptographic agility has been > emphasized by

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Michael Osborne
Hi John You want to check this statement " Many European governments are planning to use FrodoKEM as the main quantum-resistant algorithm for ephemeral-ephemeral key exchange" The Netherlands have already updated guidance such that ML-KEM is recommended and FrodoKEM is acceptable. https://pu

[IPsec] Mahesh Jethanandani's No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-13-01

2025-01-22 Thread Mahesh Jethanandani via Datatracker
Mahesh Jethanandani has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ipsecme-13-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
There exist standards for FrodoKEM now, so you could point to those documents (or does IANA insist they be IETF documents?) On the other hand, it is far too early for BIKE or HQC. For one, we don't know which NIST would select. And, even when they do, they may very well make tweaks between no

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Philip Kwan
Do we know which transform IDs will be used for the pre-standard PQCs (FrodoKEM, BIKE, HQC)? Thanks Phil On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 10:46 AM Watson Ladd wrote: > On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:07 AM John Mattsson > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I think IKEv2 should register code points for FrodoK

[IPsec] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on charter-ietf-ipsecme-13-01: (with COMMENT)

2025-01-22 Thread Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker
Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ipsecme-13-01: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, a

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread John Mattsson
>There exist standards for FrodoKEM now, so you could point to those documents >(or does IANA insist they be IETF documents?) I do not think IETF should normatively refer to paywalled ISO crypto standards, they don’t even fulfill specification required. Paywalls significantly discourage security

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread Loganaden Velvindron
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 at 10:11, John Mattsson wrote: > > >There exist standards for FrodoKEM now, so you could point to those > >documents (or does IANA insist they be IETF documents?) > I do not think IETF should normatively refer to paywalled ISO crypto > standards, they don’t even fulfill speci

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread John Mattsson
Yes, Classic McEliece has properties that makes it the best choice in many different applications. Classic McEliece is the most conservative KEM and Classic McEliece category 5 is the best option for protecting various other keys (ML-KEM, ML-DSA, SLH-DSA, FN-DSA, LMS, XMSS, etc.) in transit and

[IPsec] Re: [CFRG] Re: Re: [IPsec]: FrodoKEM and its usage in IKemEv2

2025-01-22 Thread John Mattsson
ANSSI, BSI, and Swedish NCSA have all just recently added ML-KEM to their list of recommended algorithms, which I very much welcome, but I have not seen any indication that they would stop recommending FrodoKEM. My current understanding is that many European governments are planning to use Frodo