Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-11 Thread Walter Parker
Sure, sorry about that. I'm done with the silliness as we at an impasse. Walter On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:45 AM Larry Garfield wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, at 1:53 AM, Stephen Reay wrote: > > > > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 13:42, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 10,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-11 Thread Larry Garfield
On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, at 1:53 AM, Stephen Reay wrote: > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 13:42, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 11:11 PM Stephen Reay > > wrote: > > > > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 12:40, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > > > G > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 10,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Stephen Reay
> On 11 Oct 2019, at 13:42, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 11:11 PM Stephen Reay wrote: > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 12:40, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > G > > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:10 PM Stephen Reay > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>> On 11 Oct 2019, at 02:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 11:11 PM Stephen Reay wrote: > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 12:40, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > G > > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:10 PM Stephen Reay > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>> On 11 Oct 2019, at 02:59, Walter Parker wrote: > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:36 AM

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
G On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:10 PM Stephen Reay wrote: > > > > On 11 Oct 2019, at 02:59, Walter Parker wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:36 AM Chase Peeler > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:30 PM Walter Parker > wrote: > >> > > > No. The compromise i

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Stephen Reay
> On 11 Oct 2019, at 02:59, Walter Parker wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:36 AM Chase Peeler wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:30 PM Walter Parker wrote: >> No. The compromise is funding a ferry system. Or laying Internet between them. Or a passenger

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:27 PM Mark Randall wrote: > On 10/10/2019 23:04, Walter Parker wrote: > > If this truly is the problem that you say it is, there should be plenty > of > > documentation online as to the issues that it has cause. Maybe you could > > post some of the better cases (as the t

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Mark Randall
On 10/10/2019 23:04, Walter Parker wrote: If this truly is the problem that you say it is, there should be plenty of documentation online as to the issues that it has cause. Maybe you could post some of the better cases (as the the responsibility of the person suggesting the change to provide evi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:27 PM Mark Randall wrote: > On 10/10/2019 20:59, Walter Parker wrote: > > They will either be stuck on an old version of PHP or have to pay to > update the code. > > If you're getting stuck on a island after being given 4 or 5 years > warning that the bridge to it will

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Mark Randall
On 10/10/2019 20:59, Walter Parker wrote: They will either be stuck on an old version of PHP or have to pay to update the code. If you're getting stuck on a island after being given 4 or 5 years warning that the bridge to it will be closed, after being pointed to the ferry, given free ticket

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 11:04 AM Mark Randall wrote: > On 10/10/2019 18:30, Walter Parker wrote: > > "Ferry" projects might be: more/better training on PHP, better > > documentation so that the backtick is no longer an "obscure" feature to > > those that don't have a shell/Unix/Perl background, t

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:36 AM Chase Peeler wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:30 PM Walter Parker wrote: > >> > >> > >> > No. The compromise is funding a ferry system. Or laying Internet between >> > them. Or a passenger pigeon mail route. >> > >> > Sometimes compromise requires deep disc

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Mark Randall
On 10/10/2019 18:30, Walter Parker wrote: "Ferry" projects might be: more/better training on PHP, better documentation so that the backtick is no longer an "obscure" feature to those that don't have a shell/Unix/Perl background, tooling to warn people when they misuse this feature. Unfortunatel

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Chase Peeler
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:30 PM Walter Parker wrote: > > > > > > No. The compromise is funding a ferry system. Or laying Internet between > > them. Or a passenger pigeon mail route. > > > > Sometimes compromise requires deep discussion about the motivations for > > each side and coming to a later

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Walter Parker
> > > No. The compromise is funding a ferry system. Or laying Internet between > them. Or a passenger pigeon mail route. > > Sometimes compromise requires deep discussion about the motivations for > each side and coming to a lateral, mutually acceptable, solution. > > But we'd rather not discuss mo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Bishop Bettini
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 13:03 Chase Peeler wrote: > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:11 AM Mike Schinkel > wrote: > > > > I'm not sure where's the log jam here? > > > > The issue is not this specific RFC. > > > > As I wrote earlier, there appear to be heated and non-stop debates over > > (at least) BC,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-10 Thread Chase Peeler
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:11 AM Mike Schinkel wrote: > > I'm not sure where's the log jam here? > > The issue is not this specific RFC. > > As I wrote earlier, there appear to be heated and non-stop debates over > (at least) BC, and possibly other areas. People dig in on a position and > then wo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-09 Thread Mike Schinkel
> I'm not sure where's the log jam here? The issue is not this specific RFC. As I wrote earlier, there appear to be heated and non-stop debates over (at least) BC, and possibly other areas. People dig in on a position and then won't consider any other options that might be available. > It's

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-09 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
Hi! > Maybe that would be a way to move forward with some of the log jams here? I'm not sure where's the log jam here? An RFC proposing largely pointless deprecation not being met with overall enthusiasm is not a "logjam". It's a logjam only if somehow we were to imagine more BC breaks, more de

Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"

2019-10-09 Thread Mike Schinkel
> On Oct 9, 2019, at 12:58 PM, Larry Garfield wrote: > And developing such guidelines absolutely positively cannot happen on a > public asynchronous mailing list. I've been through such processes enough > times to know that is the worst possible way to do it. When I first saw this email I thou