Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-10 Thread Rowan Collins
Lester Caine wrote on 09/11/2014 22:39: On 09/11/14 21:59, Rowan Collins wrote: None of which has anything to do with E_STRICT. Strict notices aren't indications that behaviour has changed; since we have E_DEPRECATED, they shouldn't even indicate behaviour is about to change; they just indicate

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-09 Thread Lester Caine
On 09/11/14 21:59, Rowan Collins wrote: > None of which has anything to do with E_STRICT. Strict notices aren't > indications that behaviour has changed; since we have E_DEPRECATED, they > shouldn't even indicate behaviour is about to change; they just indicate > that there might be a better way of

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-09 Thread Rowan Collins
On 09/11/2014 20:48, Lester Caine wrote: On 07/11/14 01:59, Christoph Becker wrote: Nobody suggested to switch off error reporting. IMO, E_STRICT is supposed to be a weak form of E_DEPRECATED, i.e. a hint for the developer to modernize the code in the near future. Until this can be done, it se

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-09 Thread Lester Caine
On 07/11/14 01:59, Christoph Becker wrote: > Nobody suggested to switch off error reporting. IMO, E_STRICT is > supposed to be a weak form of E_DEPRECATED, i.e. a hint for the > developer to modernize the code in the near future. Until this can be > done, it seems to be perfectly fine to suppress

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Christoph Becker
Lester Caine wrote: > On 06/11/14 11:16, Christoph Becker wrote: >>> Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed through across those three versions which would have been much safer handled by removing e_strict from PHP5.4 rather than trying to live with

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Stas Malyshev
Hi! > - major BC break: major versions only. 5 major BC breaks allowed per major > version. I'm not sure how such numbers make sense. Why 5 and not 3 or 7 or 17? If that breaks your code, even one is too much. If your code is not affected, why would you care if it's 5 or 15 or 150? I'm afraid thi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Christoph Becker wrote: > Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Christoph Becker > wrote: > > > >> Lester Caine wrote: > >> > >>> Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed > >>> through across those three version

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Christoph Becker
Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Christoph Becker wrote: > >> Lester Caine wrote: >> >>> Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed >>> through across those three versions which would have been much safer >>> handled by removing e_strict from P

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Lester Caine
On 06/11/14 11:16, Christoph Becker wrote: >> Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed >> > through across those three versions which would have been much safer >> > handled by removing e_strict from PHP5.4 rather than trying to live with >> > both versions of PHP. >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Christoph Becker wrote: > Lester Caine wrote: > > > Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed > > through across those three versions which would have been much safer > > handled by removing e_strict from PHP5.4 rather than trying to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-06 Thread Christoph Becker
Lester Caine wrote: > Yes it is only a number, but a lot more problematic changes WERE pushed > through across those three versions which would have been much safer > handled by removing e_strict from PHP5.4 rather than trying to live with > both versions of PHP. I don't see a problem with regard

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Kris Craig
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > 2014.11.06. 2:46 ezt írta ("Andrea Faulds" ): > > > > > > > On 5 Nov 2014, at 20:34, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > > > > Regardless of those, I think it would be worse from the users POV than > our > > > current policy where we target no BC br

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Lester Caine
On 06/11/14 02:27, Andrea Faulds wrote: >> We have minor BC breaks (new errors. Slight behavior changes due to bug >> fixes). >> > >> > But globally no, it makes end users work harder for migration, even worst >> > for distros. >> > >> > See Debian f.e., they boost the adoption speed now, we fi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
2014.11.06. 2:46 ezt írta ("Andrea Faulds" ): > > > > On 5 Nov 2014, at 20:34, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > > Regardless of those, I think it would be worse from the users POV than our > > current policy where we target no BC breaks in minor/micro versions. > > The only exception should be security

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Andrea Faulds
> On 6 Nov 2014, at 02:00, Pierre Joye wrote: > > We have minor BC breaks (new errors. Slight behavior changes due to bug > fixes). > > But globally no, it makes end users work harder for migration, even worst for > distros. > > See Debian f.e., they boost the adoption speed now, we finally

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Pierre Joye
On Nov 6, 2014 11:46 AM, "Andrea Faulds" wrote: > > > > On 5 Nov 2014, at 20:34, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > > Regardless of those, I think it would be worse from the users POV than our > > current policy where we target no BC breaks in minor/micro versions. > > The only exception should be securi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Andrea Faulds
> On 5 Nov 2014, at 20:34, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > Regardless of those, I think it would be worse from the users POV than our > current policy where we target no BC breaks in minor/micro versions. > The only exception should be security concerns (see the unserialize changes > in 5.6 for such an

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Pierre Joye
Hi, On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:20 AM, Florian Margaine wrote: > Thoughts? Am I thinking too much? Is this idea unfeasible? Is it a good > idea? Have you missed: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/releaseprocess ? Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Dev

Re: [PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Ferenc Kovacs
2014.11.05. 21:21 ezt írta ("Florian Margaine" ): > > Hi list, > > I'd like to introduce thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks, i.e. > maximum numbers of allowed BC breaks per version. > > Lester's mail from a couple days ago had me thinking about the BC breaks > that occur now and then in a

[PHP-DEV] Thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks

2014-11-05 Thread Florian Margaine
Hi list, I'd like to introduce thresholds of backwards compatibility breaks, i.e. maximum numbers of allowed BC breaks per version. Lester's mail from a couple days ago had me thinking about the BC breaks that occur now and then in all the RFCs or all the mails I see these days. Now, take what I