Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-17 Thread Tim Düsterhus
Hi On 6/13/24 21:48, Timo Tijhof wrote: I ask because MediaWiki's main "text" database table is an immutable/append-only store where we store the text of each page revision since ~2004. It is stored as serialised blobs of a value class. There have been a number of different implementations over

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-17 Thread Derick Rethans
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024, Lanre wrote: > Coming from the property hooks/ asymmetric visibility dude, that's pretty > rich. Please, ad-hominem (and other) attacks are not welcome on this list. Please familiarise yourself with the mailinglist rules (https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/docs/mai

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Valentin Udaltsov
On Friday, 14 June, 2024 at 23:19, Bilge wrote: > On 14/06/2024 15:56, Larry Garfield wrote: > > I agree that this sounds like a change with very unclear BC implications at > best, and bad ones at worst, with dubious benefit. Just how much performance > would we gain from case sensitive class

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Bilge
On 14/06/2024 15:56, Larry Garfield wrote: I agree that this sounds like a change with very unclear BC implications at best, and bad ones at worst, with dubious benefit. Just how much performance would we gain from case sensitive class names? If it's 20%, OK, sure, that may be worth whatever

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Lanre
Coming from the property hooks/ asymmetric visibility dude, that's pretty rich. On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 10:13 AM Larry Garfield wrote: > On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Robert Landers wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 6:40 AM Rokas Šleinius > wrote: > >> > >> I'm no one important, but I jus

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Larry Garfield
On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, at 11:22 AM, Robert Landers wrote: > On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 6:40 AM Rokas Šleinius wrote: >> >> I'm no one important, but I just want to say for the sake of the >> public image of PHP I hope this does not pass, or at least not in the >> foreseeable future. >> >> There are NO

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Robert Landers
On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 6:40 AM Rokas Šleinius wrote: > > I'm no one important, but I just want to say for the sake of the > public image of PHP I hope this does not pass, or at least not in the > foreseeable future. > > There are NO substantial gains to speak of here and the BC break is > real an

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-14 Thread Bilge
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024, 05:39 Rokas Šleinius, wrote: > > Besides, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know if you know, but > if you take a look at stackoverflow developer survey over the years, > there has been an absolute 30% drop of php popularity in the past few > years. > > I would guess th

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-13 Thread Rokas Šleinius
I'm no one important, but I just want to say for the sake of the public image of PHP I hope this does not pass, or at least not in the foreseeable future. There are NO substantial gains to speak of here and the BC break is real and it's super annoying when they pile up and up. Besides, this is sl

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-13 Thread Valentin Udaltsov
On Friday, 14 June, 2024 г. at 00:04, Timo Tijhof wrote: > Would this affect unserialize()? > > I ask because MediaWiki's main "text" database table is an > immutable/append-only store where we store the text of each page revision > since ~2004. It is stored as serialised blobs of a value class.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-13 Thread Timo Tijhof
Would this affect unserialize()? I ask because MediaWiki's main "text" database table is an immutable/append-only store where we store the text of each page revision since ~2004. It is stored as serialised blobs of a value class. There have been a number of different implementations over the past

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-12 Thread Gina P. Banyard
On Tuesday, 11 June 2024 at 15:38, Valentin Udaltsov wrote: > Hi, Ben and Levi! Thank you for your interest! > > Could you, please, elaborate on why you propose to target 9.0? That would > make perfect sense if PHP strictly followed semver, but we always have some > BC breaks in minor releases

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-11 Thread Levi Morrison
> Could you, please, elaborate on why you propose to target 9.0? That would > make perfect sense if PHP strictly followed semver, but we always have some > BC breaks in minor releases > (https://www.php.net/manual/en/migration82.incompatible.php, > https://www.php.net/manual/en/migration83.inco

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-11 Thread youkidearitai
2024年6月11日(火) 23:18 Levi Morrison : > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 9:40 PM Ben Ramsey wrote: > > > > > On Jun 10, 2024, at 20:35, Valentin Udaltsov > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, internals! > > > > > > 9 years have passed since the last discussions of case sensitive PHP: > > > https://externals.io/m

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-11 Thread Valentin Udaltsov
On Tue, 11 June 2024 at 17:13, Levi Morrison wrote: > On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 9:40 PM Ben Ramsey wrote: > > > > > On Jun 10, 2024, at 20:35, Valentin Udaltsov < > udaltsov.valen...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, internals! > > > > > > 9 years have passed since the last discussions of case sen

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-11 Thread Levi Morrison
On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 9:40 PM Ben Ramsey wrote: > > > On Jun 10, 2024, at 20:35, Valentin Udaltsov > > wrote: > > > > Hi, internals! > > > > 9 years have passed since the last discussions of case sensitive PHP: > > https://externals.io/message/79824 and https://externals.io/message/83640. > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-10 Thread Ben Ramsey
> On Jun 10, 2024, at 20:35, Valentin Udaltsov > wrote: > > Hi, internals! > > 9 years have passed since the last discussions of case sensitive PHP: > https://externals.io/message/79824 and https://externals.io/message/83640. > Here I would like to revisit this topic. > > What is case-sensiti

[PHP-DEV] Revisiting case-sensitivity in PHP

2024-06-10 Thread Valentin Udaltsov
Hi, internals! 9 years have passed since the last discussions of case sensitive PHP: https://externals.io/message/79824 and https://externals.io/message/83640. Here I would like to revisit this topic. What is case-sensitive in PHP 8.3: - variables - constants (all since https://wiki.php.net/rfc/c