Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Christoph Becker
Hi Yasuo, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Christoph, > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Christoph Becker > wrote: > >>> We have been tried to educate users already and introduced some >>> mitigations e.g. allow_url_include, open_basedir. >>> >>> However, enough time is passed to prove that wasn't

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Stas, On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > > I'm not trying to be perfect, but I would like to make PHP as secure as > > other > > languages from script inclusion attacks. It's too easy currently... > > PHP is already as secure as the other languages. If you have code

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Patrick Schaaf
Hi, another one of my weird ideas: what about a script signing mode? - ini setting containing a HMAC key - first

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
Hi! > I'm not trying to be perfect, but I would like to make PHP as secure as > other > languages from script inclusion attacks. It's too easy currently... PHP is already as secure as the other languages. If you have code in Python that loads arbitrary file and executes it, you could upload Pytho

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Stas, On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > > > Please let me know what you like or dis

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Lester Caine
On 11/02/15 09:34, Derick Rethans wrote: >> Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC >> > >> > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. >> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include >> > >> > Please let me know what you like or dislike. > Con: > - It intr

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Derick Rethans
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Markus, > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Markus Fischer wrote: > > > What constitutes "first token" in this context? > > > > Would this be detected as a PHP file? > > > > -8< > > root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash > > daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/u

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-11 Thread Derick Rethans
On Tue, 10 Feb 2015, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi all, > > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > Please let me know what you like or dislike. Con: - It introduce

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
Hi! > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > Please let me know what you like or dislike. I think there are several issues with this RFC: 1. It does not prote

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Stanislav Malyshev
Hi! > I proposed script()/script_once() at first. Considering new names that > might > break existing apps, I choose INI. The problem with script_once is not that it may break existing apps. The problem is that somebody careful enough to use special operator would probably be careful enough not t

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Matteo, On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Matteo Beccati wrote: > >> On 10/02/2015 01:52, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> >>> Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC >>> >>> [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd v

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Pierre, On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Matteo, On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Matteo Beccati wrote: > On 10/02/2015 01:52, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC >> >> [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include >> >> Pl

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Christoph, On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Christoph Becker wrote: > > We have been tried to educate users already and introduced some > > mitigations e.g. allow_url_include, open_basedir. > > > > However, enough time is passed to prove that wasn't enough, isn't it? > > > > PHP (many and th

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Christoph Becker
Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > We have been tried to educate users already and introduced some > mitigations e.g. allow_url_include, open_basedir. > > However, enough time is passed to prove that wasn't enough, isn't it? > > PHP (many and these are _only_ few of them in the wild) > http://www.exploit-db.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Pavel, On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:06 PM, Pavel Kouřil wrote: > IMHO the real solution to this problem is to educate the programmers > how to write safer applications, not by ini settings. > We have been tried to educate users already and introduced some mitigations e.g. allow_url_include, ope

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi Markus, On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Markus Fischer wrote: > What constitutes "first token" in this context? > > Would this be detected as a PHP file? > > -8< > root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash > daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/usr/sbin/nologin > bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:/usr/sbin/nologin

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Pavel Kouřil
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 1:52 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi all, > > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > Please let me know what you like or dislike. > > Thank y

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Pierre Joye
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi all, > > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > Please let me know what you like or dislike. I said bef

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Markus Fischer
On 10.02.15 01:52, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC > > [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include > > Please let me know what you like or dislike. How exactly does this detection wor

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-10 Thread Matteo Beccati
Hi Yasuo, On 10/02/2015 01:52, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include Please let me know what you like or dislike. I understand you goal, but ini

[PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Script only includes

2015-02-09 Thread Yasuo Ohgaki
Hi all, Some of you are tired with this topic, but please take a look the RFC [RFC] Script only includes - this is 3rd version. https://wiki.php.net/rfc/script_only_include Please let me know what you like or dislike. Thank you. -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net