Re: [PHP-DEV] Security mailing list

On 10.01.2018 at 20:42, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > On Mi, 2018-01-10 at 19:38 +0100, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > >> Thanks, Kalle!  Actually, this is about >> which demands some discussion (there are even more "solutions" than >> I've >> mentioned in the bug tracker).

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

In my opinion The Strong Typing Syntax RFC will have less of a chance of passing a vote than https://wiki.php.net/rfc/typed-properties. Since the typed-properties RFC was confined to properties on a class (and looking at the code it appears to me that it wasn't too difficult to implement the type s

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 10/01/2018 18:39, Michael Morris wrote: On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Describing the syntax/UI for a feature like this is nothing like the architectural drawings for a skyscraper. In terms of time and effort spent it is. It often takes years to complete plans drawn

Re: [PHP-DEV] Security mailing list

On Mi, 2018-01-10 at 19:38 +0100, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > On 10.01.2018 at 19:31, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > > > > > 2018-01-10 17:58 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > > > > > > > > Can someone please point out, how I can subscribe to the security > > > mailing list?  I have already kar

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

Whether we work with runtime type checks or compile-time static analysis: The user-facing language design questions would still be the same, right? E.g. we would still have to distinguish type-locked parameter values vs dynamically typed parameter values. On 10 January 2018 at 20:23, Andreas Henni

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 10 January 2018 at 19:59, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > > Now if the RFC was a plan for baking a compile-time static analysis engine > into PHP itself, that would be interesting. But that is a *massive* project. Even with my limited understanding of the engine, I can imagine this to be a lot of work

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Michael Morris wrote: > On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf > wrote: > > > If you stay away from trying to change a 25-year old loosely typed > > language into a strictly typed one, then the RFC becomes much simpler. > > > > -Rasmus > > > > I have

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > If you stay away from trying to change a 25-year old loosely typed > language into a strictly typed one, then the RFC becomes much simpler. > > -Rasmus > I have REPEATEDLY stated that is not the goal. I don't misrepresent what you say, p

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Michael Morris > wrote: >> >> Also, drawing the architectural drawings for a skyscraper is also like >> only >> 10% of the work, but it's a damn important 10%. >> > > Wow, that's rather insulting to the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Security mailing list

On 10.01.2018 at 19:31, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > 2018-01-10 17:58 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > >> Can someone please point out, how I can subscribe to the security >> mailing list? I have already karma to view security bug reports. > > You need to be manually added by one of the ML adm

Re: [PHP-DEV] Security mailing list

Hi Christoph 2018-01-10 17:58 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > Hi! > > Can someone please point out, how I can subscribe to the security > mailing list? I have already karma to view security bug reports. You need to be manually added by one of the ML admins or someone with karma to the box, usu

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:11 AM, Ryan Jentzsch wrote: > I agree with Michael (to a large degree) and I think I see clearly > Michael's point: > Under the current system I will NEVER create an RFC (or find someone with > the Zend engine coding chops to help me) because the RISK vs. REWARD with >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

I agree with Michael (to a large degree) and I think I see clearly Michael's point: Under the current system I will NEVER create an RFC (or find someone with the Zend engine coding chops to help me) because the RISK vs. REWARD with the current RFC system is too likely to be a colossal waste of ever

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Sara Golemon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >> I think you, and many others, commenting here, should start by looking >> at the engine implementation. Any successful RFC needs to have a strong >> implementation behind it, or at the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > I think you, and many others, commenting here, should start by looking > at the engine implementation. Any successful RFC needs to have a strong > implementation behind it, or at the very least a very detailed description of > how the impleme

[PHP-DEV] Security mailing list

Hi! Can someone please point out, how I can subscribe to the security mailing list? I have already karma to view security bug reports. Thanks! -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 10.01.2018 at 17:22, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 10 January 2018 at 15:54, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > >> On 10.01.2018 at 15:09, Rowan Collins wrote: >> >>> I'll also echo a previous request that you apply for a wiki account to >> make your document more readable; or maybe just put it as a gi

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 10 January 2018 at 15:54, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > On 10.01.2018 at 15:09, Rowan Collins wrote: > > > I'll also echo a previous request that you apply for a wiki account to > make your document more readable; or maybe just put it as a github gist or > on your own website, and treat it as m

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 10.01.2018 at 15:09, Rowan Collins wrote: > I'll also echo a previous request that you apply for a wiki account to make > your document more readable; or maybe just put it as a github gist or on your > own website, and treat it as more of a wishlist and discussion piece than a > spec that co

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:10 AM, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > Am 10.01.2018 um 16:04 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf: >> Wow, that's rather insulting to the amazing work Dmitry, Nikita, Xinchen >> and others are doing working on the core of PHP. > > I agree. > > IIRC, last time optional type declarations fo

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

Am 10.01.2018 um 16:04 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf: > Wow, that's rather insulting to the amazing work Dmitry, Nikita, Xinchen > and others are doing working on the core of PHP. I agree. IIRC, last time optional type declarations for attributes were discussed Dmitry optimized/refactored something in t

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Michael Morris wrote: > > Also, drawing the architectural drawings for a skyscraper is also like only > 10% of the work, but it's a damn important 10%. > Wow, that's rather insulting to the amazing work Dmitry, Nikita, Xinchen and others are doing working on the c

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On 9 January 2018 23:06:54 GMT+00:00, Michael Morris wrote: >Before I begin, and without picking on anyone specific, I want to say that >it is generally unhelpful to say that because I, or others, do not know how >the engine is set up that it is impossible to make any meaningful >contributions to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][DISCUSSION] Strong Typing Syntax

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:53 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > > The difference here is that the end syntax is something like 10% of the > problem. 90% of it is fitting it into the engine in an efficient manner > giving that it is affecting the very core of the engine. An RFC on this > issue that does