[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in <20250130205056.3vIwoke8@steffen%sdaoden.eu>: |John Levine wrote in | <20250130180421.7c392ba8f...@ary.qy>: ||It appears that Jim Fenton said: ... ||>otherwise you don’t know that the mutation doesn’t contain harmful/u\ ||>nwanted ||>content (barring some magic A

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Jeremy Harris
On 30/01/2025 21:19, Michael Thomas wrote: I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation” that might be  applied by an intermediary. Even if fully described, you need to have some  trust of the intermediary to accept the mutation, because otherwise you don’t  know that the muta

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 1/30/25 5:00 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 1:34 PM Michael Thomas wrote: But I'm content to leave that discussion to the WG rather than the charter. I do think it's a valid discussion point to understand why this has bubbled up to the top. I know

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
John Levine wrote in <20250130180421.7c392ba8f...@ary.qy>: |It appears that Jim Fenton said: |>I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation” \ |>that might be applied by an intermediary. Even if fully described, \ |>you need to |>have some trust of the intermediary to ac

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 1/30/25 1:39 PM, Jeremy Harris wrote: On 30/01/2025 21:19, Michael Thomas wrote: I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation” that might be applied by an intermediary. Even if fully described, you need to have some trust of the intermediary to accept the mutation, because

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Jeremy Harris wrote in : |On 30/01/2025 21:19, Michael Thomas wrote: |>> I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation\ |>> ” that might be applied by an intermediary. Even if fully descri\ |>> bed, you need to have some trust of the intermediary to accept t\ |>> he mutatio

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Murray S. Kucherawy
On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 1:34 PM Michael Thomas wrote: > > But I'm content to leave that discussion to the WG rather than the charter. > > I do think it's a valid discussion point to understand why this has > bubbled up to the top. I know there's been talk about this off and on for > quite a while

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread John Levine
It appears that Jim Fenton said: >I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation” that might >be applied by an intermediary. Even if fully described, you need to >have some trust of the intermediary to accept the mutation, because otherwise >you don’t know that the mutation do

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Dave Crocker
On 1/29/2025 9:05 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: As I understand it, ARC on the other hand doesn't care what the mutation is, but just proves a chain of handling; if hop N+1 observes that N liked the message and N+1 trusts N, then N+1 can also like the message even if it was modified in transit

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 1/29/25 9:05 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 8:45 PM Jim Fenton wrote: I’m a little unclear on the need to fully describe the “mutation” that might be applied by an intermediary. Even if fully described, you need to have some trust of the intermediary to a

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 1/29/25 8:45 PM, Jim Fenton wrote: On 29 Jan 2025, at 19:30, Michael Thomas wrote: On 1/29/25 6:20 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: My own motivation is the former, not the latter.  That is, yes I would like to recover the author domain signature if we can come up with a relatively robust

[Ietf-dkim] Re: Goal of "mutations" objective?

2025-01-30 Thread John Levine
It appears that Michael Thomas said: >There seems to be a misconception that a mailing list can't resign a >message. Or at least it seems there is. ARC seems to go through a lot of >hoops to associate an arbitrary number of signatures with an arbitrary >number of A-R headers, but how common is