Re: What to incorporate (Re: Options for IETF administrative restructuring)

2004-09-03 Thread Adrian Farrel
Harald wrote... > Foretec has paid employees doing the secretariat job. One of the transparency problems can be seen at https://www1.ietf.org/secretariat.html The Secretariat is hosted by the Corporation for National Research Initiatives. It can be reached at: IETF Secretaria

Thoughts on scenario O

2004-09-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
While I find scenario O to be preferable amongst the alternatives so far suggested, I find it lacking in a few areas that I would like to see addressed before I give it support. The document frequently says that "IAOC will be directly accountable to the IETF community," but in my quick reading of

Disfranchise - use of language [Was: Re: [Inquiry #19085] Issue with Meeting Schedule change at the lastmoment]

2004-11-07 Thread Adrian Farrel
Gruessdi Carsten, Let's not pick up on each others use of language shall we? Disfrachise is a perfectly good word. I believe it means exactly what Stephane intended it to mean... "To deprive of a franchise or chartered right; to dispossess of the rights of a citizen, or of a particular privileg

Re: Draft version of the IAD job announcement from the IASA TT

2004-12-16 Thread Adrian Farrel
Typos etc. are easily fixed (in-line). Isn't it normal to give a closing date for applications rather than to say when evaluation of applications will start? It might also be usual to indicate from when we are hoping to fill the post. Is "Salary levels commensurate with experience and qualificati

Re: Separated document review [Re: Voting (again)]

2005-04-27 Thread Adrian Farrel
> What went wrong with ICAR (Improved Cross-Area Review)? It was closed > due to lack of activity; 12 people enlisted as reviewers, just a > single review conducted, the reviewers didn't deliver. I think your conclusion that "the reviewers didn't deliver" might be taken poorly by the reviewers on

Re: Document review

2005-05-09 Thread Adrian Farrel
Brian, > Do you think it's OK for the IESG to kick a draft right back to > the WG by saying > >"This is a mess and fundamentally wrong, but we don't have > time to tell you why, so you have to go find a reviewer." ? Yes, but... If an I-D is really bad, it is simply not possible to do any

Re: Coach class

2005-08-01 Thread Adrian Farrel
> >Now that the two previous main concerns about the Paris IETF are > >under control (nobody has died from the heat yet and the pocket loss > >rate is at the expected levels), I have a real problem that is > >actually hindering the work: > > > >Coach class. > > > >Opening the laptop in the se

Re: OFF TOPIC - Bail money for IETF 64?

2005-09-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
Goodness! You wouldn't let the engineer drive the train. That's the train driver's job. Would you let an engineer run your network? Adrian > > Unfortunately, the English term can carry either of these meanings, > > depending largely on context. It is applied to people who drive > > trains (beca

Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - weather conditions and related

2005-10-22 Thread Adrian Farrel
> 1) Outdoor temperature during the meeting above 0 degrees > Centigrade and below 40. > > My personal view is that 2 and 3 are very important, but I'm not > so sure about 1. Other comments ? Jordi, I find it hard to believe that outside temperatures are that important especially considering the s

Re: [Pesci-discuss] Growing concerns about PESCI

2005-10-25 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi John, > I'm getting more and more troubled by the PESCI process, at > least the portions of it that I can observe by reading the > messages on the public list. I've had some of these concerns > since the process was initiated. I decided to remain silent, > at least in public, about them on t

Re: FW: I-DACTION:draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria-04.txt

2006-01-19 Thread Adrian Farrel
Well Jordi, That told you, didn't it? Richard, do you speak for the Secretariat, for NeuStar, or for yourself? Adrian Richard Shockey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> might have said... > I'm assuming this is going to be Informational only and as such not > formally binding on the IAOC on the Secretariat.

Accommodation in Dublin

2008-03-09 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, Would anyone know (could anyone find out) if the Dublin hotel will countenance camping on their wonderful parkland, or camper vans in their extensive car parks? Adrian ___ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ie

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-ietf-ospf-multi-area-adj-07

2008-03-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
If in doubt, expand acronyms. But see also http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/abbrev.expansion.txt Thanks, Adrian > Abstract: > > Please expand OSPF on first use. > > Section 1.3, first paragraph: > > Please expand OSPF on first use. ___ IE

Re: reminder for people working on -bis documents

2008-03-27 Thread Adrian Farrel
Good point Jari, Can I also remind you to check in the RFC Errata pages to make sure you pick up any errors that have been flagged since RFC publication. Adrian - Original Message - From: "Jari Arkko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "IETF Discussion" ; "Working Group Chairs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Proposed Experiment: More Meeting Time on Friday for IETF 73

2008-07-17 Thread Adrian Farrel
Is there a cost implication for stripping down the network and other facilities? This usually disappears pretty promptly on Friday, presumably allowing it to be packed up for shipping and the associated staff/volunteers to travel on the Friday. If we extend into the mid afternoon, do we have

Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings

2008-07-18 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, The cut-off period before IETF meetings has (IMHO) some value to help people read an digest stable documents that will be discussed face-to-face. However, some I-Ds are beyond WG last call and are going through other review cycles. Why should updates to these be barred? For example, I h

Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings

2008-07-18 Thread Adrian Farrel
vious. Adrian - Original Message - From: "Russ Housley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Adrian Farrel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: Progressing I-Ds Immediately Before Meetings Adrian: This has been discussed man

Archives for closed WGs

2008-08-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, Do we archive charters and complete millstones for closed WGs? Thanks, Adrian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Archives for closed WGs

2008-08-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thanks (To Scott and the Tools group) A Do we archive charters and complete millstones for closed WGs? see http://www.tools.ietf.org/wg/concluded ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Dublin proceedings

2008-09-22 Thread Adrian Farrel
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings_directory.html points to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/72/materials.html points back to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings_directory.html Huh? Am I missing something? Adrian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org htt

Re: Dublin proceedings

2008-09-22 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thanks all. Some trouble getting caches flushed all the way to China. Adrian I'm not sure where you started, but I find the proceedings at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/index.html I go there directly from: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings_directory.html The last url (accessed before

Re: Gen-ART LC review of draft-ietf-pce-path-key-03

2008-10-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Ben, Thanks for the time and effort. Responding as an author not as a WG chair... Section 2.1, paragraph 3: The last sentence is confusing. "...until the LSR that can process it." does not seem to describe an event that one can wait "until". Should it say "...until it reaches the LSR..

Re: [73attendees] Is USA qualifiedfor2.3ofdraft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria?

2008-11-19 Thread Adrian Farrel
That of course goes both ways; going to China is never trivial for me, and last summer it was a real issue. I think YMMV. Over the summer my wife got a Chinese visa in 24 hour turn-around from a Visa office 190 miles from our home without having to visit. But then we live in the UK. Adrian

Re: Weekly posting summary for ietf@ietf.org

2008-11-20 Thread Adrian Farrel
Something to aspire to. Get on the list, but be at the bottom. 0.62% |1 | 0.37% | 4035 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Gen-ART LC Review of draft-ietf-mpls-te-scaling-analysis-03

2008-11-26 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Ben, Oops, I messed up the Gen-ART review boilerplate. Please mentally insert the following text at the top of my review: I think we'll let you off just this once. Document: draft-ietf-mpls-te-scaling-analysis-03 Reviewer: Ben Campbell Review Date: 2008-11-25 IETF LC End Date: 2008-11-3

Re: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-07

2009-02-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
Sam, Thanks. I am adding a brief applicability statement as section 1.3 of this document. Cheers, Adrian - Original Message - From: "Sam Hartman" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:13 PM Subject: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-07 This draft specifies the BNF va

Re: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form(RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) toProposed Standard

2009-02-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thanks Tom, A) The start of this I-D seems a little coy - 'various protocol specifications' 'several protocols' - and this is reflected in the Abstract and Introduction. Reading between the lines, this seems to have had its genesis in the 'Sub-IP Area' specification; nothing wrong with that, b

Re: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form(RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specification toProposed Standard

2009-02-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
John, Good of you to write. It has been a while since I received an email from you. Having spent several years working with formal and semi-formal definitions of programming language and being fairly unsatisfied with IETF trends in the area, I had hoped to avoid looking at this spec. No such

Re: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form(RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specification toProposed Standard

2009-02-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thanks John, It looks to me from your mail that we are in partially violent agreement. Certainly that this form of BNF needs to be documented. Also that the Applicability text I have added "will do." We have two open issues: - Use of 2119 language - Standards Track or Informational On the firs

Re: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form(RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specification toProposed Standard

2009-02-07 Thread Adrian Farrel
Since it isn't ABNF, perhaps BBNF? - Original Message - From: "John C Klensin" --On Friday, February 06, 2009 20:59 -0500 Tony Hansen wrote: Going back to RFC 2205, These rules are specified using Backus-Naur Form (BNF) augmented with square brackets surrounding opti

Re: IETF Last Call under RFC 3683 concerning JFC (Jefsey) Morfin

2006-01-22 Thread Adrian Farrel
I do not support the action against Jefsey Morfin, because the outcome would facilitate a ban on all IETF lists without specific cause and without recourse. I am not in a position to judge the correctness of a ban on the lists explicitly cited but I do not believe that we have witnessed behavior th

Re: Weekly posting summary for ietf@ietf.org

2006-02-24 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thomas, Fascinating though I find these summaries to be, I wonder: - what relevance is there to the ordering in the list? - how do you pick which weeks to publish summaries for? [copy of your message snipped to keep down my byte count :-)] Adrian ___

Re: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-call-01.txt

2006-12-07 Thread Adrian Farrel
Suresh, Many thanks for the review: Substantial: * General comment about backward compatibility I think legacy transit nodes resetting the Call ID to zero on transmission is a major issue that needs to be addressed more visibly in the draft. Why? It is not common practice to in

Tracking resolution of DISCUSSes [Was: When is a DISCUSS really a discussion?]

2007-01-06 Thread Adrian Farrel
As often, Spencer speaks sense. By the way, would it be possible for all DISCUSSes and COMMENTs for I-Ds originated by a working group to be *automatically* copied to the mailing list of the working group? The reasons are: - the WG chairs, editors, and interested parties should not have to m

Re: Tracking resolution of DISCUSSes

2007-01-08 Thread Adrian Farrel
Brian, The I-D tracker provides a handy button for the DISCUSSing AD to forward the DISCUSS to parties outside the IESG - normally by default it's the WG Chairs. Brian, I am not suggesting that IESG has to do anything different. Let them continue to raise their DISCUSSes through the I-D track

Re: Tracking resolution of DISCUSSes

2007-01-08 Thread Adrian Farrel
But regardless of this, I am concerned that the resolution of a DISCUSS is not archived anywhere. If you want to restrict the DISCUSS from reaching the WG unless the WG chair decides, then you MUST log the resolution (not just the fact of reslution) of each DISCUSS in the I-D tracker. Well, t

Re: Tracking resolution of DISCUSSes

2007-01-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hey, I had promised to keep out of this having already used my quota of emails for the months, but then Fred said... That said, I _do_ wish the tracker would maintain history of DISCUSS and COMMENT comments, instead of only showing the latest ballot text. It does. Click "view details", and

Re: Tracking resolution of DISCUSSes

2007-01-15 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Brian, If an AD modifies their DISCUSS text, or moves a DISCUSS to a COMMENT, all that is in the tracker. Yes. I agree. *If*. Some ADs are very good about this. (Shall I name names? ;-) But some are less good. Often a Discuss is just cleared. What isn't there is the email trail. Are you s

Re: Last Call: draft-harrington-text-mib-doc-template (A Template for Documents Containing a MIB Module) to BCP

2007-01-15 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi David, Thanks for taking on the drudge work to make something useful and beneficial. Comments below. Adrian === Abstract I think it would be useful if the abstract of this I-D was the abstract *for* this I-D. That means that you should move the template abstract into its own section. ===

Re: About Gen-ART reviews

2007-02-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
Brian, My view may be no surprise to you. All reviews (including GenArt) and the subsequent discussions should be copied to *some* mailing list so that the whole process is both public and archived. Copying the WG mailing list would be best, but may be a pain because the reviewer is not usu

Re: Last Call: draft-mcwalter-uri-mib (Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) MIB) to Proposed Standard

2007-02-23 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, A few further comments on this I-D. In general, a quick inspection of RFC4181 is advisable (especially section 3) as this I-D does not appear to be compliant in several cases. === The Abstract contains a citation. This should be avoided as the Abstract should be able to stand alone. Bett

Re: ietf-moms

2007-02-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
Michael, One just can tell one's 9 year-old to change the diapers of the 2 year old. Sure you can. Now, getting the desired response may be harder. Adrian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Re: Fwd: Pingsta Invitation

2007-03-26 Thread Adrian Farrel
"Stephen Casner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote... I don't know anything about Pingsta or its credibility. However, I am currently reading a boot... Yes, this has to be a new and innovative communication method :-) Adrian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ie

Re: Do you want to have more meetings outside US ?

2007-07-29 Thread Adrian Farrel
Stewart, Do we have any firm evidence that we would get more work done if we had more meetings outside the US? That is probably a non-question, isn't it? Do we have any firm evidence that we would get less work done if we had more meetings outside the US? Another data point might be... In

Re: about RSVP : Admin hello disable.

2007-07-31 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, This is a question you might want to take to the CCAMP and MPLS mailing lists. You might also ask the authors of the original I-D. The draft you reference expired almost three years ago. I have seen no mention of this behavior in any subsequent I-D or RFC. Cheers, Adrian - Original

Re: Do you want to have more meetings outside US ?

2007-07-31 Thread Adrian Farrel
The meeting fee is almost the single largest monetary expense for me, and it keeps going up. As an individual non-attendee, I couldn't agree more. Even though the December meeting is (literally) on my doorstep, there is no way I can justify $750 just to attend a pair of WG meetings. Well, t

Re: Charging I-Ds

2007-07-31 Thread Adrian Farrel
There is still no cost to the IETF, since review time is volunteer time. The costs are for the secretariat, since someone has to extract the attachments or retrieve the drafts, get them into the database, keep the systems up and running, etc. And, with the advent of the online I-D submission to

Re: joining the IETF is luxury Re: 70th IETF - Registration

2007-09-07 Thread Adrian Farrel
We shall see, but I don't know that putting up the price necessarily fixes the registration income issue. You only have to deter a relatively small proportion of attendees to wipe out the increase in charge. I assume that the converse is also being applied: viz. cutting meeting costs. It's har

Re: IETF Eurasia

2007-11-29 Thread Adrian Farrel
Maybe I should elaborate. In several WG where I am active at least half of participants are from Europe or Asia. Why do IETF meetings have to be monolithic and all-inclusive? Because there is already a lack of communicaiton between Areas. Not to say that there can't be other smaller meetings

Re: RFC Editor costs - Proofreading (was Re: My view of the IAOC MeetingSelection Guidelines)

2008-02-10 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Dave, Readability is valuable. Of course, it should be the case that WG last call, WG chair review, and IESG review produce something good and clean, but history shows that this is not the case. Indeed, it is unreasonable to expect participation at this level by non-native speakers without s

Re: [IAOC] RFC Editor costs - Proofreading (was Re: My view of theIAOC Meeting Selection Guidelines)

2008-02-11 Thread Adrian Farrel
>> In converting what is now RFC 1716 to RFC 1812, which was a HUGE >> editing task, I used a brand new tool that is now a popular grammar >> checker. It complained about "which" vs "that", which is neither here >> nor there, > > Well, not quite. "That" is for defining relative clauses, and "which"

Re: [IAOC] RFC Editor costs - Proofreading (was Re: My view of the IAOC Meeting Selection Guidelines)

2008-02-11 Thread Adrian Farrel
> This kind of grammar theead usually ends in tears. Too right. And, no doubt, we are shortly to be thoroughly flamed for being off-topic. I think what it points out is that, those of us who do not know enough about grammar, should not presume to suggest that fixes to grammar are unimportant. B

Re: AMS - IETF Press Release

2008-02-12 Thread Adrian Farrel
> Rather than following the advice of Appendix C in RFC 3986 which > recommends putting angle brackets around URLs Michael, Try explaining that to the manufacturers of Outlook Express. It has a "smart" feature. Adrian ___ Ietf mailing list Ietf@iet

Re: CORRECTION: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational

2003-01-02 Thread Adrian Farrel
Thanks for the opportunity to comment. I think it is important to document extensions and modifications made by other bodies to IETF protocols. I would caution against progressing this draft until the referenced ITU material (G.7713.3) has reached consent within the ITU since to move it forward at

Re: CORRECTION: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational

2003-01-02 Thread Adrian Farrel
To: Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALASO ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Adrian Farrel ; Atsushi Iwata ; Norihito Fujita ; Simon Marshall-Unitt ; Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi) ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Stephen Shew Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: RE: CORRECTION: Last Call: CR-LDP

Re: CORRECTION: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational

2003-01-08 Thread Adrian Farrel
> trying to understand what you are saying - it seems like you are > implying that there is no consensus with in ITU on how to progress > this, and that therefore would be premature for IETF to publish > this as an informational RFC. Correct? I'm not quite saying that. I am saying that it sounds t

Re: Last Call: LDP DoD Graceful Restart to Draft Standard

2003-06-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
With respect, this draft doesn't appear to have been through WG last call (unless I was sleeping, but I can't find any reference in the mail archive). It was only published as a WG draft on 5/7/2003 (despite carrying a date of February 2003). While I support the draft, I would like to see it disc

Re: Last Call: LDP DoD Graceful Restart to Draft Standard

2003-06-18 Thread Adrian Farrel
Did anyone decide there was an error here, or is this draft really in IETF last call? Thanks Adrian - Original Message - From: "Adrian Farrel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June

Re: Last Call: 'Maximum Transmission Unit Signalling Extensions for the Label Distribution Protocol' to Proposed Standard

2003-11-02 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi,2.4. MTU TLV   The MTU TLV encodes information on the maximum transmission unit for   an LSP, from the advertising LSR to the egress(es) over all valid   paths.   The encoding for the MTU TLV is:   0   1   2   3   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Re: Travel from Inchon Airport to Lotte Hotel

2004-02-24 Thread Adrian Farrel
http://www.tta.or.kr/ietf59/transportation.htm - Original Message - From: "Steve Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: Travel from Inchon Airport to Lotte Hotel > Can anyone provide guidance on how

RE: don't overthink, was Just so I'm clear

2012-10-25 Thread Adrian Farrel
Barry, If you believe that a change to process is necessary to make a ruling on absentee-ism, then you will also (on reflection) believe that process changes cannot be made retro-active. So, rushing this through (I do not mean to be pejorative in my use of "rushing") will not actually help the

RE: WG Action: Rechartered Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd)

2012-11-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
; Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information > please > > contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. > > > > Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd) > > > > Current Status: Active Working Group

Newcomers [Was: Evolutionizing the IETF]

2012-11-08 Thread Adrian Farrel
Trimming SM's email... > There is a direct contribution of US $2.2 million by the Internet > Society next year. Is the plan to rely on Internet Society subsidies > or to fix the deficit? One argument made was that the fees have not > been increased over the last years. I'll point out that there

RE: WG Action: Rechartered Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd)

2012-11-08 Thread Adrian Farrel
gt; To: afar...@juniper.net; ietf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: WG Action: Rechartered Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (bfd) > > - Original Message - > From: "Adrian Farrel" > To: "'t.p.'" ; > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:43 PM > > He

RE: Newcomers [Was: Evolutionizing the IETF]

2012-11-12 Thread Adrian Farrel
Dale said: > One way to build up enough credibility > to get respected people to answer you is to do thankless jobs. In > most WGs, there are never enough people who are willing to read and > provide detailed critiques of drafts. (And believe me, almost all > drafts need significant improvements

RE: IESG Considering a Revision to NOTE WELL

2012-11-12 Thread Adrian Farrel
I think you miss the point of "This summary is only meant to point you in the right direction, and doesn't have all the nuances. The IETF's IPR Policy is set forth in BCP 79; please read it carefully." That point is: this Note Well is not intended to reproduce the entirety of BCP79. Adrian > ---

RE: When to adopt a draft as a WG doc (was RE: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists")

2012-11-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
I led the discussion in the WG Chairs lunch at IETF 78 on this topic. Slides at http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/edu/wiki/IETF78# Adrian > -Original Message- > From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > George, Wes > Sent: 28 November 2012 15:36 > To: John L

RE: When to adopt a draft as a WG doc (was RE: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists")

2012-11-29 Thread Adrian Farrel
Just picking at one point... > According to some RFC: > >"All relevant documents to be discussed at a session should be published > and available as Internet-Drafts at least two weeks before > a session starts." > > If the above was followed there shouldn't be any draft submissions >

RE: Creating an IETF Working Group Draft

2012-12-03 Thread Adrian Farrel
We could certainly say this. It is a true statement. However, the document is trying to talk about WG I-Ds, not to provide a general description of everything the IETF and RFC Editor ever does. Is it false to say: Documents under development in the IETF community are distributed as Internet

RE: Creating an IETF Working Group Draft

2012-12-04 Thread Adrian Farrel
Abdussalam, By all means send text or suggestions for edits. Dave and I will include what is reasonable and seek a consensus that agrees with our motivation for writing the document. Thanks, Adrian From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Abdussalam Baryun Sen

RE: Running code, take 2

2012-12-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
I'm interested in this idea. However, I note that an "implementation status" section of a document is frozen in time when a document goes to RFC. I wonder whether we could leverage our tools and do something similar to IPR disclosures. That is, provide a semi-formal web page where implementation

RE: Running code, take 2

2012-12-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
an widget within data > tracker. > >> > >> Marc. > >> > >> > >>> If this catches on, I see a lot of value in your proposal. > >>> > >>> Please also note that the "implementation status" section (according to my &

RE: Running code, take 2

2012-12-13 Thread Adrian Farrel
ject: Re: Running code, take 2 > > +1. > > Yaron > > On 12/13/2012 05:10 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > How about... > > > > Start with Yaron's proposal to include in the I-D. This is easy as a starting > > point. Duplicate documentation in wiki m

RE: I'm struggling with 2219 language again

2013-01-04 Thread Adrian Farrel
Lou's view matches how I write and review documents. I would add that there is sometimes value in using 2119-style language in requirements documents ("The protocol solution MUST enable transmission of data...") although, in my opinion, this requires a tweak to the normal2119 boilerplate. Adrian

FW: Last Call: (A Fast-Track way to RFC with Running Code) to Experimental RFC

2013-01-11 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Alexa, Please be aware of this document that has just entered a four-week IETF last call. The document describes a proposed IETF process experiment under the rules of RFC 3933. The proposed experiment calls on the IETF Secretariat to take specific actions under certain circumstances in corner

RE: Discussion of BCP79 on the IPR-WG List

2013-01-19 Thread Adrian Farrel
Just to help this along a bit... The IPR WG was concluded in November 2008. However, the mailing list remained active for the discussion of IPR issues: subscribe via https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg. The list archive is at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipr-wg/current/maillist

RE: FW: Last Call: (A Fast-Track way to RFC with Running Code) to Experimental RFC

2013-01-25 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hello, Sorry I missed your last paragraph in the snow storm. > So, Adrian, noting the ratio between discussion of this draft on > the IETF list in the last few weeks and discussions of > everything else, how long does professional courtesy to another > IESG member (presumably in combination with

Premature termination of IETF last call on draft-farrell-ft

2013-01-29 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, This email terminates (prematurely) the IETF last call on draft-farrell-ft. It is clear to me that this document will not be advanced for further IESG evaluation without considerable further work and a subsequent IETF last call. There is no point in continuing this IETF last call. In no way

When is a 3933 experiment necessary? [Was: Last Call: (A Fast-Track way to RFC with Running Code) to Experimental RFC]

2013-01-30 Thread Adrian Farrel
Well, is that a meta-judgment call? I took the view that the full process expressed in draft-farrell-ft could not be done by the IESG at their discretion. That is, that some of the steps proposed constituted a significant variation from documented processes or well-established behavior. Thus, it w

RE: Last Call: (Experiences from Cross-Area Work at the IETF) to Informational RFC

2013-02-09 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, Here are some comments resulting from my reading of draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea. I chose to review the -03 version. Hope they are useful. Adrian === In several places, this document is careful to state that the text represents the personal view of the author (Section 4 "Process vs. Substanc

RE: Diversity of IETF Leadership

2013-03-12 Thread Adrian Farrel
I kind of promised I would not get sucked into this particular rat hole, but... The problem is with the poorly scoped use of the word "diversity". It is clear from some research that certain types of increased diversity do increase the quality of decision-making. It is also clear from rational th

Re: Mentoring

2013-03-14 Thread Adrian Farrel
Mary, I need to check but... > [MB] What I find interesting is that there was 200+ newcomers, but I > certainly didn't find that many at the meet and greet. I have to > wonder whether this doesn't have to do with the overlap between Sunday > tutorials and this event. I think that needs to be f

Re: Mentoring

2013-03-14 Thread Adrian Farrel
omers *and* the chairs would want to be at both sessions. Adrian On Thu 14/03/13 12:34 PM , "Mary Barnes" mary.ietf.bar...@gmail.com sent: > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Adrian Farrel ddog.co.uk> wrote:> Mary, > > > > I need to check but... > > > >&g

Re: Mentoring

2013-03-14 Thread Adrian Farrel
FWIW, the IETF home page has a link (top left) for "Chat Live with the IETF Community" In the 6 months that I used to turn up there regularly, I saw very few other people, but did handle a couple of relatively "newbie" questions. I offer this only as a data point to inform subsequent work. Adr

RE: RFC 6921 on Design Considerations for Faster-Than-Light (FTL) Communication

2013-04-05 Thread Adrian Farrel
So instead of asking the community "do you have an intention to implement and deploy?" we should ask "have you already been going to have implemented and deployed yet?" >> thinking about this and assuming that the FTL Communication are >> deployed in a not too far distant future, wouldn't we have

RE: draft-sheffer-running-code-03 published

2013-04-06 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi, [snipping out some useful points] We had considered what you suggest below, and indeed I typed it up in a recent email to Yaron before deleting it again. Yes, we could do what you suggest, but as you found, it requires a kind of meta-note to the RFC Editor that starts to get messy and confus

RE: question about draft-touch-tcp-ao-nat

2013-04-10 Thread Adrian Farrel
Joe, In my address book I also have i...@ref-editor.org and n.brown...@auckland.ac.nz both cc'ed here. Looking at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-touch-tcp-ao-nat/ the I-D state is "Response to Review Needed" as you noted. I don't have an key to the ISE states, but this one would seem to

RE: Purpose of IESG Review

2013-04-11 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Ian, Examples are useful because they give the IESG something to chew on. If you don't call us when we do "bad stuff" we might never know. Examples can be dangerous because we can rat-hole into the specific rather than the general, but i would like to use your example as data point to get some

RE: Purpose of IESG Review

2013-04-11 Thread Adrian Farrel
And that should, of course, have read "Hi Lloyd" Sorry about that, Lloyd. The rest of the message still stands. Adrian > -Original Message- > From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian > Farrel > Sent: 11 April 2013 22:18 > To:

RE: IETF Diversity Question on Berlin Registration?

2013-04-18 Thread Adrian Farrel
The perception is important. It probably shows many things including "attendance is not participation". Just for the completely unscientific hell of it, I just counted up the mic-sex in CCAMP's marathon meetings in Orlando. I counted minuted interventions and presentations. I counted each interven

RE: IETF Diversity Question on Berlin Registration?

2013-04-19 Thread Adrian Farrel
On 19 April 2013 at 12:22 Abdussalam Baryun wrote on this list: > No name in the AD list appear so far, but if your the discuss-list is > right then it may be good progress, hoping for more names for > diversity. I count three ADs on the diversity discussion list at the moment. Why is my count

RE: Last Call: (Improving Awareness of Running Code: the Implementation Status Section) to Experimental RFC

2013-04-25 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi SM, > I have read every word in this document multiple times mainly in the > order they were written. :-) Hmmm, you can't be sure what order we wrote them. You can only know what order they are presented in :-) > In Section 1: > >"The scope of the intended experiment is all Internet-Draf

RE: [Tools-discuss] Last Call: (Improving Awareness of Running Code: the Implementation Status Section) to Experimental RFC

2013-04-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi Fred, I'm in complete agreement with you, but... :-) Before investing in a common set of tools to archive implementation information, I wanted to see whether there was *any* intention to make that information available. Thus, this is a baby-step towards the end result that you and I wold lik

RE: [Tools-discuss] Last Call: (Improving Awareness of Running Code: the Implementation Status Section) to Experimental RFC

2013-04-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi John, Seems consistent with what is in the I-D at the moment. See section 3. Thus, those who want to record the info in the I-D can do that, while those who want to go straight to a wiki can do that (although we ask that the I-D has a pointer to the wiki). Cheers, Adrian > -Original Mes

RE: Last Call: (Improving Awareness of Running Code: the Implementation Status Section) to Experimental RFC

2013-04-28 Thread Adrian Farrel
Hi AB, Thanks for your review. > IMHO, we should not request to delete this proposed > section, but it can be shifted to the Appendix section when published. > Removing the section is like doing some work in IETF and then > destroying it, future reviewers/implementers may not know why it was > ac

RE: call for ideas: tail-heavy IETF process

2013-05-03 Thread Adrian Farrel
Well said, Thomas. > Two concrete suggestions: > > 1) have WGs do the managing role more proactively > 2) mentor authors and others a bit more to encourage them how best to > operate Which I suspect means... 0) have ADs manage/mentor the WG chairs more proactively. Almost certainly a case of

RE: call for ideas: tail-heavy IETF process

2013-05-03 Thread Adrian Farrel
> >> 1) have WGs do the managing role more proactively > > Provide WG Chairs the monitoring tools they need to be proactive - Action > Tracker, what do I need to do today data tracker views. Same for AD. > > Same for authors and their mentors, if any. Wouldn't work for me. YMMV. Adrian

Is this an elephant? [Was: call for ideas: tail-heavy IETF process]

2013-05-15 Thread Adrian Farrel
The claim (or one of the claims) is that some ADs may place Discusses that are intended to raise a discussion with the authors/WG that could equally have been raised with a Comment or through direct email. This, it is claimed, may unnecessarily delay the document from completing the publication pro

RE: Is this an elephant? [Was: call for ideas: tail-heavy IETF process]

2013-05-16 Thread Adrian Farrel
for ideas: tail-heavy IETF process] > > On 5/15/2013 1:30 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Suppose the AD raised her concern by writing a Comment or sending an email > and > > balloting "No Objection." That would mean that the I-D would be approved for > > publicati

RE: (Security Threats for NHDP) to Informational RFC

2013-05-24 Thread Adrian Farrel
In the interests of moving the document forward more briskly, here are my comments as responsible AD. Thanks, Adrian --- I know it is not the intent of this document to propose solutions or mitigations to any of the threats described. However, I think two things would be useful: 1. Please add a

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