Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On 11/03/2013 20:02, Dan Harkins wrote: >> In addition to the moral and social issues involved, diversity of >> leadership across several axes (race, geographic location, gender >> and corporate affiliation) is important for three practical reasons: >> >> - It is a well-established fact that di

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On Mon, March 11, 2013 10:08 pm, Margaret Wasserman wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Dan Harkins wrote: > >> In other words, the statement that gender and racial diversity in >> groups makes them "smarter" has no basis in fact. Do you feel that >> an all-female group is stupider than a si

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

Speaking as a successful by-product of the american Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunities programs of the 70s and early 80s, I would suggest the IETF needs to work two small baby steps: - Improving its Marketing, - What is its products? - What will attract all/any groups? -

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

As a minority raised thru the corporate rank, as stated below I think it is offensive too and unfair to historical facts. But overall, I think it is just the wrong choice of words. All it could suggest is that there are more different views and experiences in the "synergistic" effect of final

Gonca's ANRP talk is at 10:30

Probably of interest to RTG folks. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Eggert, Lars" > Subject: [irtf-discuss] Applied Networking Research Prize 2013 presentation > at IETF-86 > Date: January 22, 2013 9:51:13 EST > To: "irtf-annou...@irtf.org" , > "irtf-disc...@irtf.org" > Reply-To: "a...@ir

RE: Diversity of IETF Leadership

I kind of promised I would not get sucked into this particular rat hole, but... The problem is with the poorly scoped use of the word "diversity". It is clear from some research that certain types of increased diversity do increase the quality of decision-making. It is also clear from rational th

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

At 07:56 AM 3/12/2013, Dan Harkins wrote: >While these studies are interesting and thought provoking, I think it is >wrong, and very dangerous, to use these studies to justify blanket >statements about intelligence, group or otherwise. I'm laughing a bit about this thread. For example, there's al

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Michael StJohns wrote: > At 07:56 AM 3/12/2013, Dan Harkins wrote: >>While these studies are interesting and thought provoking, I think it is >>wrong, and very dangerous, to use these studies to justify blanket >>statements about intelligence, group or otherwise.

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

Le 2013-03-12 à 11:19, Mary Barnes a écrit : > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Michael StJohns > wrote: >> At 07:56 AM 3/12/2013, Dan Harkins wrote: >>> While these studies are interesting and thought provoking, I think it is >>> wrong, and very dangerous, to use these studies to justify bla

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

> "Randall" == Randall Gellens writes: Randall> selection bias. But, as several people have noted, if we Randall> grow the IETF pool Randall> as a whole, that helps, and if we remove barriers to Randall> serving on I* that helps Randall> as well. I think that finding w

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On 3/12/2013 11:00 AM, Michael StJohns wrote: Seriously - diversity is generally good. I think we all get that. One of the ironies about this topic in the IETF is that our philosophy of open access to our documents and open participation in our activities is predicated on the belief that

Re: side meetings and BarBOFs.

I think Michael's point is that because a BOF only has two shots, people trying again do NOT go through the open, advertised process and thus end up with closed meetings where people are (almost always INADVERTENTLY) not invited. It would be more open and transparent to have these meetings on th

[ Trust Router BAR BOF at IETF 86: Thursday at 1130

Hi. We've also created the trust-rou...@ietf.org mailing list to discuss the effort. --- Begin Message --- The ABFAB working group has been busy at work describing a federated identity and access management model that enables federated identity for a wide variety of use cases and applications; t

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

+1 There lies the fine line of conflict of interest that I believe the IETF has done a tremendous job in keeping in control with diverse disciplines and philosophies well considered. The RFC format by definition, its style, the open WGs, is all geared towards diverse audiences. On 3/12/2013

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On 2013-03-12, at 12:59, Hector Santos wrote: > There lies the fine line of conflict of interest that I believe the IETF has > done a tremendous job in keeping in control with diverse disciplines and > philosophies well considered. The RFC format by definition, Were you referring the fact th

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

At 2:03 PM -0500 3/11/13, Mary Barnes wrote: To suggest that someone is not qualified to be an AD because they shed tears in a contentious situation is unacceptable IMHO. I'm confused as to why that would be considered a reason not to appoint someone, regardless of gender. Is it because t

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On 03/11/2013 03:33 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: ISOC is doing a great job with the fellowship program. There is just a few people each meeting but it is a good start. I'm glad they are doing it but it is a drop in the bucket. Our processes are considerably biased against anyone who is n

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 2:03 PM -0500 3/11/13, Mary Barnes wrote: > >> To suggest that >> someone is not qualified to be an AD because they shed tears in a >> contentious situation is unacceptable IMHO. > > > I'm confused as to why that would be considered

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

At 3:54 PM -0700 3/11/13, Dan Harkins wrote: Do you feel that an all-female group is stupider than a similarly sized group that is equal parts male and female? Based on my own experience, I believe that a broad range of background and experience improves the quality of decision making of

Re: side meetings and BarBOFs.

> "Hannes" == Hannes Tschofenig writes: Hannes> a Bar BOF is an discussion among interested people that is Hannes> open for others. Since we like transparency and openness we Hannes> invite others to join these discussions. Hannes> Would you rather like to have meetings where

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

Hi - > From: "Dan Harkins" > To: "Margaret Wasserman" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 3:56 AM > Subject: Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership ... > If there's some bias involved in the Nomcom's selection process then > point it out and let's address it. The mere fact that there are is > pre

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

On Tue, March 12, 2013 10:35 am, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 3:54 PM -0700 3/11/13, Dan Harkins wrote: > >> Do you feel that >> an all-female group is stupider than a similarly sized group that is >> equal parts male and female? > > Based on my own experience, I believe that a broad range of >

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

Title: Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership At 1:08 AM -0400 3/12/13, Margaret Wasserman wrote: On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Dan Harkins wrote:  In other words, the statement that gender and racial diversity in groups makes them "smarter" has no basis in fact. Do you feel that

Re: side meetings and BarBOFs.

> "Burger" == Burger Eric writes: Burger> I think Michael's point is that because a BOF only has two Burger> shots, people trying again do NOT go through the open, Burger> advertised process and thus end up with closed meetings Burger> where people are (almost always INADVERTE

Martians

Hi At last night's plenary, I raised some related issues about the difficulties posed by the interactions between current systems for developing and editing documents working groups through the approval and publication processes and the growing number of people in the community who do sound techni

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

Hi Margaret, At 06:00 AM 3/11/2013, Margaret Wasserman wrote: I've been thinking, for instance, that one thing we could add to our list of immediate actions is for IESG members to review their directorate membership and, if it makes sense, attempt to increase the diversity of their directorates

Re: Martians

Le 2013-03-12 à 14:45, John C Klensin a écrit : > Hi > > At last night's plenary, I raised some related issues about the > difficulties posed by the interactions between current systems > for developing and editing documents working groups through the > approval and publication processes and th

Extra Social Ticket

I have an extra social ticket I could sell if anyone wants it. I'll probably try to be on one of the first buses, so contact me soon if you want it. Margaret

Thinking about text production and the "Draft" word processor

I stumbled on a link to a rather interesting "word processor" called Draft: https://draftin.com/ The main claim to fame here is support for collaborative writing and review with better incremental/history management than certain other browser-centric document production tools. It also uses a

Re: Thinking about text production and the "Draft" word processor

On Mar 12, 2013, at 17:03, Dean Willis wrote: > a wiki-like inline markup language Well, actually it uses markdown, which seems to have a rather large penetration when it comes to writing-oriented markup. If you want to use markdown for collaborating on RFC-style documents, there are tools li

Re: Martians

I wasn't offended either, but I can see how some people might have felt. Moving on, what I do believe is that many i-d's could benefit from a review by a linguist. This role, IMO, is different from the role of an editor. The linguist doesn't need to have any technical background. He is more like

Re: Martians

Oh, I forgot: NOW TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER !! :D On 3/12/13 5:48 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > I wasn't offended either, but I can see how some people might have felt. > > Moving on, what I do believe is that many i-d's could benefit from a > review by a linguist. > > This role, IMO, is differe

Re: side meetings and BarBOFs.

Not answering to anyone in particular. I agree that BarBOFs are useful, I just wish they were better communicated. If I had learnt about which ones were happening I might have joined. cheers ~Carlos On 3/11/13 9:56 PM, Burger Eric wrote: > I think Michael's point is that because a BOF only has

Re: Martians

I didn't know we had a leader. I though we were an autonomous collective! Seriously though, editing for language is something we could take off the shoulders of technical editors at least part of the time. I'd want for them (and maybe chairs+ADs) to be the ones using such a resource, should it exi

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

At 11:19 AM 3/12/2013, Mary Barnes wrote: >On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Michael StJohns wrote: >> At 07:56 AM 3/12/2013, Dan Harkins wrote: >>>While these studies are interesting and thought provoking, I think it is >>>wrong, and very dangerous, to use these studies to justify blanket >>>stat

Re: side meetings and BarBOFs.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: [...] > I agree that BarBOFs are useful, I just wish they were better > communicated. If I had learnt about which ones were happening I might > have joined. I agree Ulrich

Re: fixing language in documents written by Martians and others

>Moving on, what I do believe is that many i-d's could benefit from a >review by a linguist. > >This role, IMO, is different from the role of an editor. The linguist >doesn't need to have any technical background. He is more like a syntax >/ semantic verifier. It's common practice in other fields.

Re: Martians

On 3/12/2013 1:45 PM, John C Klensin wrote: In any event, I've gotten some feedback that some people thought I was identifying them as Martians and were offended. No offense was intended and I used the "Martian" terminology precisely to avoid that possibility. I obviously failed and apologize

Re: Diversity of IETF Leadership

I see some rough consensus that more diversity/a wider spectrum of viewpoints (across various metrics) in various ISTF groups would be helpful, with support for Arturo's language: The problem is to bring new people (younger people, women, from more countries, different languages, etc.) to wr

Re: Martians

Hi, "Martian” is nice expression. Top level Hungarian physicists working in various aspects of nuclear physics in the early forties in the States were called Martians as they used a funny language amongst themselves, i.e. Hungarian. This group includes John von Neumann, Leo Szilard, Ede Teller a