Re: AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

Getting a GSK trace is non trivial. See here for instructions On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 at 05:36, Peter Vels wrote: > That is OK. But I need to see the output from the GSKSRVR trace to get to > the bottom of th

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> simply a point where I think it's obvious that someone is intentionally being > disrespectful. And it is obvious that you are intentionally being disrespectful. > As a rule, I don't act snarky unless something is happening. Actually, you attack people based on who they are rather than what th

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> If I'm continually "wrong again", how is it that we arrived at the solution? When you perpetually launch ad hominem attacks, it's difficult to justify the claime that you are being civil. > Does anyone think that Seymour was leading Phil towards a solution to his > problem? Only those who ac

Re: speaking of filesystems [was: Definition of mainframe?]

> A colleague said, "Everything is a file." OS/360 aimed for that > target with the abstraction of DD names, but missed by exposing > hardware characteristics with "attributes" such as RECFM=FBM. That was not an OS/360 design goal, but I don't believe that there is any conflict between attribute

Re: of COBOL and other languages [was: Definition of mainframe?]

Even a ghastly language may have good features, and there is nothing wrong with finding the few jewels in the much. On the flip side, even a good language has warts, and there is no virtue in ignoring them. As an example, I like PL/I and dislike COBOL, but COBOL had enumerations (the English-li

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

Do you really think you're accomplishing anything by getting personally insulting? ...that is, beyond destroying your own credibility and potential future job prospects? If I was looking at your resume, I'd think twice about keeping it instead of sticking it in the nearest shredder. On Sat, Jul 2

Re: AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

Since I know almost nothing about AT-TLS config, this might be dumb, but: Don't forget to try the *AUTH*/* key ring. That's a "virtual key ring" that represents all the trusted certs, and is a great shortcut for saying "Do I have the right cert in there somewhere but the key ring setup isn't rig

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

Any manager who bases his hiring on what transpires here, is a fool. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, July 30, 2023, 8:08 AM, Jay Maynard wrote: Do you really think you're accomplishing anything by getting personally insulting?  ...that is, beyond destroying your own credibility and

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

While I agree with most of the points made by the original poster, a couple of nits: 1) zPDT is a software-only toolno special chips or PC boards involved. 2) HTML was inspired by - or evolved from - IBM's GML 3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that served ou

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > >3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that >served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA. > What guest OS? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe /

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 02:05:59 AM PDT, Seymour J Metz > wrote: > I was spot on when I wrote that the CP and z/OS definitions had to be in > synch. In what world were you spot on? There is a huge difference between must and should. In this case, out of synch is a solution for 3270 sc

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

Pretty sure it was CMS. DJ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> In what world were you spot on? The real one. > screen scraping WTF? It has nothing to do with screen scraping. It has to do with addresses and device types matching. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Jon Perryman Sent: Sunday, Jul

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On 7/30/23 11:49, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: 3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA. What guest OS? CMS, which technically is a "guest OS". -- R; <><

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:18:04 PM PDT, Tom Brennan > wrote: > Where does "1,600 PCIe slots" come from? If I calculated max configurable PCIe slots correctly, 4 CPC drawers * 12 PCIe+ fanout adapters * 2 fanout ports per adapter * 16 PCIe+ slots in each drawer = 1,536 PCIe+ slots. So

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:56:08 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: >Pretty sure it was CMS. > Do you know the chronology? When was the CMS(?) based HTTPD created? Was SFS available at that date? MDFS is a poor fit for HTTP paths. -- gil

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 12:11:11 -0400, Rick Trot wrote: >On 7/30/23 11:49, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:38:59 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: >>> 3) The original web browse was written of a Next, but the web server that >>> served out the pages ran on IBM's VM/ESA. >>> >> What guest OS?

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

Got it, thanks. So the 1600 slots is related to the 1536 ports you previously mentioned. The problem with that calculation is that you can't just take the 4 CPC's x 12 fanout slots = 48 I/O drawers. There's nowhere near enough room for that many drawers - you'd have to stack about 9 on top o

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On 7/30/23 12:42, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 10:56:08 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: Pretty sure it was CMS. Do you know the chronology? When was the CMS(?) based HTTPD created? Was SFS available at that date? MDFS is a poor fit for HTTP paths. There were several web servers a

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 09:04:58 AM PDT, Seymour J Metz > wrote: > WTF? It has nothing to do with screen scraping. It has to do with addresses > and device types matching. Once again Seymour fails to ask even one basic question to determine if there is any merit. Seymour's incompetence

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

You are repeating the same old lie. In fact, I am aware that I sumetimes err and I have thanked people one this list for correcting errors that I have made. Can you honestly make the same claim? I will consistently respect opinions for others when they have a basis in fact. I, however, do not s

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 12:22:22 PM PDT, Bob Bridges > wrote: > I reluctantly admit that COBOL has important strengths  > ("reluctant" only because I have a deep dislike of verbosity in coding),  > But there are tasks for which I like PL/1, or VBA, or REXX (or ooRexx), and > so on.

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 01:50:52 PM PDT, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > However, COBOL can be coded using everyday,  > non-specialized English vocabulary such as "LEVEL 77". I assume this is sarcasm about problems with Cobol. There are very

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

I assumed that too (and laughed aloud at the time). The man who introduced me to computer programming (blessings upon him!) got us writing code the very first day. I remember him asking us "so you have to write a program that compares two numbers and tells you which one is greater. What's the

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Sun, 30 Jul 2023 17:32:54 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote: > >... But it never seemed to me that COBOL statements were any easier to > learn, or more intuitive, than those of FORTRAN or Basic. > In defense of verbosity: Once in the late 1960s I counseled a physics graduate student who was strugg

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

> On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 01:11:05 PM PDT, Seymour J Metz > wrote: > You are repeating the same old lie. What lie are you saying I'm repeating? z/VM console 3215 for screen scraping? Are you saying you asked a question in trying to understand my point? Are you saying as your message didn

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 02:36:12 PM PDT, Rick Troth > wrote: > Your inquiry is (understandably) somewhat of a reaction against > unfortunate trends in public thinking. IBM doesn't have a definition. I can't define mainframe because the only distinction I could find is design phi

Re: Ignorant z/OS question

I'm saying that you are lying about what we disagree about. When you launch gratuitous ad hominem attacks on me then you have forfeited any claim to respect. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Jon Perryman Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2023 6:16

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On 30/07/2023 2:28 am, Jon Perryman wrote: ASK YOURSELF: Name the z/OS Unix feature that sort of fixes the fundamental design flaw with Unix filesystems just described? I suspect most people won't think about each user having a unique filesystem  using automount to make their filesystem availab

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:50:39 +1000, Andrew Rowley wrote: > >An automounted filesystem per user has always been a terrible idea. I >think it was given as an example of how you could use automount and >somehow morphed into a recommendation. (Other OSes can e.g. use >automount to mount a remote user f

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On 31/07/2023 9:36 am, Paul Gilmartin wrote: It mimics the MVS tradition of overallocating datasets. Aren't modern filesystems virtual and dynamically extensible? They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing that's the problem though, it's shrinking - releasing space so that it can be used by an

USS Features

On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 6:51 PM Andrew Rowley wrote: > On 30/07/2023 2:28 am, Jon Perryman wrote: > > ASK YOURSELF: Name the z/OS Unix feature that sort of fixes the > fundamental design flaw with Unix filesystems just described? > > > > I suspect most people won't think about each user having a

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

Mainframe - the greatest computer hardware ever developed & continues to be developed. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, July 30, 2023, 7:36 PM, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:50:39 +1000, Andrew Rowley wrote: > >An autom

Re: USS Features

On 31/07/2023 10:59 am, Steve Smith wrote: Whatever. We use automount, and the "space" wasted is way too trivial to worry about. And HSM can magically free up home filesystem zfs files that aren't used any more. If it's trivial, you're probably not using actually using it. A low end laptop h

Re: USS Features

On 7/30/23 10:23 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote: A low end laptop has 250GB available. How much space should a z/OS user be able to use (to do their job) before they have to make a special request to the storage management group? 10GB? 100GB? Please forgive the ignorant question, but does z/OS suppor

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

On 7/30/23 7:58 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote: They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing that's the problem though, it's shrinking - releasing space so that it can be used by another user. I feel like shrinking is a thing for many file systems. The utility to shrink may not be included with the O

Re: Definition of mainframe? Was: Ars Technica

COBOL MOVE was not intuitive. Should have been PROPOGATE or COPY, COPY was already taken I guess. On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 1:55 PM Grant Taylor < 023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On 7/30/23 7:58 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote: > > They do dynamicaly expand. It's not growing that's

Re: bitmapped displays [was: Definition of mainframe?]

On 7/29/23 5:47 PM, Rick Troth wrote: Xwindows is used by Linux because it had been developed widely and was common on Unix when Linux came into popular view. Xwindows itself is an excellent development. Sadly, Xwindows is way to "chatty" and has other issues. I'm curious to know what you're