> On Sep 5, 2023, at 8:17 AM, Clem Clarke wrote:
>
> Yes, we send a bug report way back in the 1960's at Shell Oil in Melbourne.
>
> We used COND codes a lot, and it mucked everything up!
>
> Clem
>
>
> Colin Paice wrote:
>> I heard that IEFBR14 had the highest "bug rate" per line of code
>>
AL' 10/15
CHANGE '(' DIGITS*3 ')' TO SUBSTRING 2/4
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Leonard D Woren
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 7:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler L
On Fri, Sep 08, 2023 at 04:35:59PM -0700, Leonard D Woren wrote:
You left out URSA at UCLA. Online editing as long as the file was
RECFM FB/80/400. Pre 3270, 20 lines of 40 characters. Along with job
submission and output view capability.
> Just like the rest that I listed. So a failure, inst
This list is dying just like assembler. Another 5, maybe 10 years, both will be
in the dustbin of history. In 10 years, most of the dominant posters will be
gone.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, September 8, 2023, 7:44 PM, Tom Brennan
wrote:
I'd say head them over to
https://ww
I'd say head them over to
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ProfessionalMainframers
In spite of the name, it's 90% nostalgia - maybe more. And there are a
lot of retired folks there to give upvotes and comments - unlike a new
email group.
For me, I don't mind anything reasonably on-topic. It'
Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/8/2023 5:29 AM:
I used SuperWylbur, but even in the free version you had associative ranges,
which greatly simplified many editing tasks.
Doesn't current ISPF's regexp support let you do the same thing? Not
that I've learned yet how to do that stuff...
Even before
Steve Thompson wrote on 9/7/2023 7:24 PM:
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Yes, at RAND circa 1976 as a guest of an employee, and at Stanford,
which is where I quickly grew to hate it. Funny thing is, many of the
other Stanford systems people started using TSO more as they saw what
I could do wit
Hercules 390 list often gets many of those conversations. Or trying
to recreate the software.
On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 4:17 PM Mark Zelden wrote:
>
> I'm with most of the posters...
>
> There needs to be an IBM-MAIN-NOSTALGIA list and these trips down memory lane
> moved there when they start.
>
>
I'm with most of the posters...
There needs to be an IBM-MAIN-NOSTALGIA list and these trips down memory lane
moved there when they start.
I was pretty much gone from IBM-MAIN over the last 2-3 years due to just being
too busy
to try and keep up but recently have tried to start following again.
For what it's worth (which is not much, I realize) I generally read this kind
of thread with interest and sometimes chime in. Not saying you're wrong, Rex,
just casting my own vote the other way.
There are lots of threads that don’t interest me, but it's very little work to
ignore 'em.
---
Bo
this list.
Please stop the chatter on this.
Rex
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Crawford Robert C (Contractor)
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 7:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXT] Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still ali
ursday, September 7, 2023 9:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries (RACF, ACF2, Top
Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with RECFM=U
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries
(RACF, ACF2, Top Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with
RECFM=U. So one could keep source there if they wanted. Would, on
close
right.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Hitefield
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 10:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - TSO alternatives
TONE was a single-address space player too. I conver
9:15 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
>
> Bill Johnson wrote on 9/7/2023 1:05 PM:
> > We used to use ROSCOE at a small shop in the 80’s because it used less
> resources. I hated it.
>
> ROSCOE was on
You ever work with WYLBUR?
Single address space, keeping users from crossing boundaries
(RACF, ACF2, Top Secret and WACF). Could edit a library with
RECFM=U. So one could keep source there if they wanted. Would, on
close compress the PDS to a single extent if it could.
Used very low level in
I agree. ROSCOE was clunky & less productive. I’ve never used the other TSO
alternatives.
I seem to remember vaguely ROSCOE requiring the user to “attach” the member you
wanted to edit but that was 35 years ago.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 9:15 PM, Leonard
Roscoe was one address space so everything was there when you logged
in. Much like using a CICS editor.
On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 8:15 PM Leonard D Woren wrote:
>
> Bill Johnson wrote on 9/7/2023 1:05 PM:
> > We used to use ROSCOE at a small shop in the 80’s because it used less
> > resources. I h
Bill Johnson wrote on 9/7/2023 1:05 PM:
We used to use ROSCOE at a small shop in the 80’s because it used less
resources. I hated it.
ROSCOE was one of a collection of TSO alternatives, which were all
junk. TONE, ACEP, Wylbur, maybe more that I don't remember. They all
had 1 two-pronged de
udders.
> > > >
> > > > ____
> > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on
> > behalf of Clem Clarke
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
___
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on
> behalf of Clem Clarke
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
> > >
>
t;
> >
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
> > Clem Clarke
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler Li
Agree.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 8:00 PM, Matt Hogstrom
wrote:
We used it at a bank because of the number of application developers. TSO was
reserved for system programmers. Also, it was limited in what you could do
with the OS. made sense for the
I didn’t start it. But, I’ll bet I get the warnings.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 7:21 PM, Bob Bridges
wrote:
And, they're off again.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* "If dickering won't work, then you have to fight. But I thi
500 MB.
>
> /Leonard
>
>
> Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/7/2023 3:32 AM:
>> I never had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>> ____
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent:
We used it at a bank because of the number of application developers. TSO was
reserved for system programmers. Also, it was limited in what you could do
with the OS. made sense for the purpose but it was not a lot of fun. It was
like being moderated at every turn. TSO, was, Liberating.
Ma
And, they're off again.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* "If dickering won't work, then you have to fight. But I think maybe it
takes a man who has been shot at to appreciate how much better it is to fumble
your way through a political compromise rather than have th
eonard
>
>
> Seymour J Metz wrote on 9/7/2023 3:32 AM:
>> I never had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September
ber 7, 2023 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Ohio, I was at the top in Algebra and Geometry. Early 70’s. I still have the
awards program. I’m very proud of it and my Math expertise paid off handsomely.
Sent from Yahoo
_
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: September 7, 2023 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Ohio, I was at the top i
er had TSO in less than 2 MiB; 768 KiB gives me shudders.
>>
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA
___
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
>> Clem Clarke
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
>&g
n List on behalf of Clem
Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
--
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
What was the first OS that you had a 2 MB TSO region? What hardware.
MVT TSO on the 4 MB 360/91 at UCLA was about 3/4 MB . There was a lot
you could do, although it was slow. I did experiment with overlay
mo
I had been using TSO/ISPF for a decade mostly at GM, then EDS when GM bought
them. Before accepting the job at the small local company (hospital) that used
ROSCOE. In my programming days.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 7, 2023, 4:41 PM, Bob Bridges
wrote:
If you can
If you can explain why without deriding anyone, Bill, I'd be interested in
knowing why. I first encountered ROSCOE in 1980 and used it for a while
without thinking much about it. When I realized I could change things around
in it, I got excited.
It was another two years before I was exposed t
Clarke
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
>
>
> Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
>
-
.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Clem
Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow
e shudders.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Clem Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive - Dumps - Early days
I used to arrive at work every morning to ha
My interview for my first full-time job, at a big Savings and Loan in
1979 (after the HR interview) with my to-be boss Les went like this:
he picked up a thick post-bound continuous-form listing, opened it to
a random spot, pointed to an assembler instruction and asked "what
does this do?" Di
Please can this conversation be moved to the assembler list (and so give it
usage!)
Thank you
Colin
On Wed, 6 Sept 2023 at 14:35, Phil Smith III wrote:
> Clem, I've never heard of CLEO. Should I assume it's NOT the same CLEO
> that comes up when I search "cleo programming language"? That one loo
Clem, I've never heard of CLEO. Should I assume it's NOT the same CLEO that
comes up when I search "cleo programming language"? That one looks like some
modern scripting thing.
It's pretty interesting these languages that came and went. You'd think that
there would still be pockets of each,
I was told many years ago by a professional (her 'field' was in manic
depression and anger management, particularly children) that feeling a
loss of control is the cause of much (most?) anger. It made a lot of
sense to me, and since then I've observed that this appears to be
mostly, if not en
I wrote some code about 13 years ago. It allowed long parameters, and
even more importantly, it allowed card files to be generated with
symbolic parameter replacement for typical utilities in "card" files.
And effectively it allows card files to be stored in Proclibs with
parameters or symboli
I used to arrive at work every morning to have to wade through a two
foot high paper system dump to see why an OS abend had occurred that
night. Every night, pretty well in the early days!
MFT, MVT, MVS. MVS was a LOT better.
Running TSO in 3/4 of a meg was interesting. And VERY slow.
We u
I remember going to a customer to discuss a deep technical problem. Before
they let us into the inner sanctum were given a dump and were asked "what's
the problem?" My colleague looked at it and said there is a program check
at this address, and this is fixed in ptf uy " come on in you've
pass
I did regular ASSEMBLER training, provided by training companies here in
Germany,
in the 1990 to 2005 time frame. Since then, there indeed was not much
demand.
I worked for different mainframe customers since 2000 until today (I'm a
freelancer),
and every one of them had some ASSEMBLER program
Offering? To me it sounds like there’s no demand or there would actually be
classes available to select as we write. There’s really nothing scheduled and
likely won’t be. Because there’s no demand.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, September 5, 2023, 6:38 PM, Bernd Oppolzer
wrote:
Hi Peter,
this reminds me of another story ...
some day my customer (a large insurance company here in Germany) asked
me to talk with their IBM rep,
because we had a severe problem with one of the DB2 components which I
discovered, and I was asked to
have IBM fix it or otherwise provide a solu
Sprechen Sie Englische? I never said any such thing. I’m an expert in many IT
things. But, more a jack of all IT things with an ability to pick up things
rapidly. And I’ve done everything. Operations, programming, DB2 DBA, DASD
Admin, consulting, Ops Manager, z/OS “installer”, third party softwa
I offer training classes,
Steve Thompson does.
If a company really wants ASSEMBLER training, they can find it here.
Am 04.09.2023 um 22:35 schrieb Bill Johnson:
I love how many of you downplay others who don’t do what you do. And act like
it’s inferior. Plus, puff yourselves up simply for pro
So your JCL expertise qualifies you as a systems programmer ... that's
interesting.
Am 04.09.2023 um 17:57 schrieb Bill Johnson:
To claim people who don’t code assembler or read dumps aren’t systems
programmers is idiotic.
...
I learned zero JCL in college. I learned and became an expert at
x27;t hurt for the IBM tech writers to keep it in
mind when documenting parameters.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Peter
Sylvester
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 10:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler
ts.)
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
>From "Brian Westerman"
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/5/2023 6:32:27 AM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
>Equating college and systems programming is not really logical. I'm not aware
>of any college
.UA.EDU
Date 9/5/2023 6:32:27 AM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
Equating college and systems programming is not really
logical. I'm not aware of any colleges that "teach" how to be
a systems programmer. I think some may have tried, but I
doubt it would be a
ate 9/5/2023 6:32:27 AM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
Equating college and systems programming is not really logical. I'm not aware of any
colleges that "teach" how to be a systems programmer. I think some may have
tried, but I doubt it would be a big draw.
Yes, we send a bug report way back in the 1960's at Shell Oil in Melbourne.
We used COND codes a lot, and it mucked everything up!
Clem
Colin Paice wrote:
I heard that IEFBR14 had the highest "bug rate" per line of code
1) There was no CSECT statement
2) It was not reentrant
3) It did not cl
I heard that IEFBR14 had the highest "bug rate" per line of code
1) There was no CSECT statement
2) It was not reentrant
3) It did not clear R15 prior to exit
4) It was missing an end statement
I was told this over 40 years ago... and may not be true
On Tue, 5 Sept 2023 at 13:53, Bob Bridges w
Please do not use this subject heading,
Please change it to what you are talking about.
On 2023-09-05 22:53, Bob Bridges wrote:
Hey, look at that! I never knew why the famous IEFBR14 was so named;
now I guess maybe I do, though I won't be guessing after I look up the
BR instruction).
---
Hey, look at that! I never knew why the famous IEFBR14 was so named; now I
guess maybe I do, though I won't be guessing after I look up the BR
instruction).
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* The historic case against miracles...consists of calling miracles
impossibl
Personal attacks are really not warranted. I think we can discuss our systems
programming beliefs without attacking someone.
Brian
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listse
Equating college and systems programming is not really logical. I'm not aware
of any colleges that "teach" how to be a systems programmer. I think some may
have tried, but I doubt it would be a big draw.
I have a PhD, but I didn't learn to write assembler in college, at least not
any that wou
If you are truly interested in learning System z assembler, then one resource
you could use is the late John Ehrman's book 'Assembler Programming for IBM
System z Servers' - a quick google search should find it for you.
The reason I am posting this is to mention some macros detailed in Appendix
uted?
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
lol better known! That’s the goal of these cult me
Yeah, sigh. It's sometimes hard to let pass nonsense such as what he spouted
about assembler language. But of course when his assertions are demolished, he
resorts to distractions such as whether degrees matter and who's had the most
short-term employments. Anyone here with as misguided an opini
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
lol better known! That’s the goal of these cult members. Not talented, not
educated, but better known. That’s why you join LinkedIn too. To be known and
to network. You were unemployed for a long period of time. Because you had a
sig
than you are.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
I’m not a narcissist. I don’t need to post my resume there. (Many are
embellished) Plus, LinkedIn has had numerous hacks.
My resume that I wrote decades ago and just added to with each employer, got me
offers gal
I’m not a narcissist. I don’t need to post my resume there. (Many are
embellished) Plus, LinkedIn has had numerous hacks.
My resume that I wrote decades ago and just added to with each employer, got me
offers galore, was 100% factual, and my interview skills got me hired. I was
never unemployed
Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin,
I love how many of you downplay others who don’t do what you do. And act like
it’s inferior. Plus, puff yourselves up simply for programming in Assembler. I
made a boatload of money in 40+ years performing nearly every task on the
mainframe. I can also code in Assembler, just never needed to. As
Too funny. Basic research (LinkedIn, etc.) would have revealed my degree.
Research ability is another important system programming skill you haven't
exhibited.
You've listed dozens of places you've worked (with apparently consistently
short tenures) and various products you've touched but haven
Phoenix online?
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:26 PM, g...@gabegold.com
wrote:
Not that it matters -- or that I rely on it for credentials/credibility -- but
I do, B.S. in Applied Mathematics.
Wrong again, you are. About so much.
My point is that many exce
Not that it matters -- or that I rely on it for credentials/credibility -- but
I do, B.S. in Applied Mathematics.
Wrong again, you are. About so much.
My point is that many excellent programmers (system and application) don't have
degrees - and are no less excellent for that omission. And besid
I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor,
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college
No doubt you don’t have one.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com
wrote:
That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know
that.
Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs.
That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know
that.
Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs.
having actual qualifications and experience.
"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound
ignorance
e are plenty of
excellent programmers without degrees.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bernd Oppolzer
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 2:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
FWIW:
I h
To claim people who don’t code assembler or read dumps aren’t systems
programmers is idiotic.
Sure, there are some people who don’t need college to be good systems
programmers, but I’ll bet you don’t get heart surgery from a guy/gal who isn’t
trained by a college and you don’t hire a lawyer who
Well said.
On 9/4/2023 2:24 AM, Bernd Oppolzer wrote:
FWIW:
I have a computer science degree from the university of
Stuttgart, Germany (from 1977 to 1985).
We learned Pascal first, then different Assembler languages.
During my studies, I got interested in
compiler construction, and I am the m
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Peter Sylvester
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 10:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
Namen sind Schall und Rauch,
Some parts of the discussion reminds me to Lewis Carroll, Through the looking
Namen sind Schall und Rauch,
Some parts of the discussion reminds me to Lewis Carroll, Through the looking
glass.
It reminds me to the citation that that I made in ibmmail descript
https://www.funet.fi/pub/doc/netinfo/EARN/ (There are some other gems in
that directory).
"song" = "what is
FWIW:
I have a computer science degree from the university of Stuttgart,
Germany (from 1977 to 1985).
We learned Pascal first, then different Assembler languages. During my
studies, I got interested in
compiler construction, and I am the maintainer of the New Stanford
Pascal compiler today, lo
I write more lines of assembler per month now than I used to write in a year 10
to 15 years ago. I can't even think of an exit that I have not written code
for at least a dozen times. I've written more interfaces for Java and C++ to
"get" things from z/OS in the past 5 years than I really care
Assembler is only relevant to the Machine.
Joe
On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 12:23 AM Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> Assembler is only relevant to the Runtime
>
> Matt Hogstrom
> PGP key 0F143BC1
>
> > On Sep 3, 2023, at 13:26, Paul Gilmartin <
> 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
Assembler is only relevant to the Runtime
Matt Hogstrom
PGP key 0F143BC1
> On Sep 3, 2023, at 13:26, Paul Gilmartin
> <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> How important are Assembler skills for a Linux for zSeries applications
> programmer?
> A systems programmer? Why?
3, 2023 10:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems programmer unless
they have my abilities. And your education is meaningless, just ask Gabe
Goldberg or “machine language” Bernd.
Sent fro
/3/2023 17:16:05 PM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
>+1
>
>and I believe, I said virtually the same before, that makes 2 persons 😀
>
>
>Am 03.09.2023 um 22:41 schrieb g...@gabegold.com:
>>That "one person's experience" was widely sh
Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems programmer unless
they have my abilities. And your education is meaningless, just ask Gabe
Goldberg or “machine language” Bernd.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 8:59 PM, David Spiegel
<0468385049d1-dm
Again, I didn’t say assembler programming is dead, but it’s been dying for
decades.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 10:51 PM, Leonard D Woren
wrote:
It proves nothing, so your your conclusion is wrong. You just don't
know where the assembler programmers are
It proves nothing, so your your conclusion is wrong. You just don't
know where the assembler programmers are working. We're working for
the software vendors that most companies pay lots of money to because
they don't want to hire their own assembler programmers. Fine with
me, except that thr
++1 [IEFUSI]
On 9/3/2023 5:24 PM, David Spiegel wrote:
HI Bill,
More vacuous and specious arguments.
You said: "... In fact, making changes to delivered software
can be dangerous. ..."
Writing/modifying Exits is not the same as your statement.
It is evident from what you've written, that you
Hi Bill,
Besides showing arrogance, you're displaying your ignorance as well.
You said: "...Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer ..."
For your information, I have a combined CompSci degree with business and
mathematics from University of Toronto, the best school in Canada.
I've w
Assembler is not machine language.
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From "Bernd Oppolzer"
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/3/2023 17:16:05 PM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
+1
and I believe, I said virtually the same before, that makes 2 perso
If I’m still alive in 5 years, I’m going to laugh at these kind of “it can’t be
done” comments.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 7:07 PM, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023, at 23:59, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Easy, the Vendors will have it set up for you to fi
I’ve heard this nonsense before. Lots of blue collar workers told me in the
70’s their job can’t be automated. My brother worked for GM in the paint shop.
Said painters will always have a job. Guess what. It’s all done by robots.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023,
Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re
likely an installer of zOS.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 7:14 PM, g...@gabegold.com
wrote:
None of "DB2 DBA, DASD Admin, contractor, programmer analyst, manager of
operations, p
You'll rely on vendors anticipating with variables every possible requirement
for every installation? What happens when management comes to IT with an urgent
business case-justified request? Tell them so sad, too bad, our vendor doesn't
allow that? You consider filling in variables to be system
None of "DB2 DBA, DASD Admin, contractor, programmer analyst, manager of
operations, programmer, and Operations" are system programming -- so aren't
relevant to this discussion.
Many people calling themselves system programmers are in fact
installers/configurers/administrators. Those are all us
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023, at 23:59, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Easy, the Vendors will have it set up for you to fill in some
> variables.
And if the variables they defined don't cover the /site/-specific
needs (that the vendors know nothing about)?
> On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 6:48 PM, Jeremy Nicoll
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