[Haskell-cafe] Re: Simplification of this function?

"Andrew Wagner" wrote: > I've been playing around with this, but haven't been able to come up > with anything. > myFunc f (a,b) (c,d) = (f a c, f b d) > > It feels as if there should be a nice simple version of this using > some combination of {un,}curry, "on", &&&, ***, or something else. > > An

[Haskell-cafe] ANN: leapseconds-announced-2009

Dear all, I'm pleased to announce the upload of the leapseconds-announced package[1] to Hackage. leapseconds-announced contains a single module and a single function implementing the Data.Time.Clock.TAI.LeapSecondTable interface (type). The documentation[2] for Data.Time.Clock.TAI.LeapSecondTable

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Documentation [Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt]

Dan Piponi wrote: On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Paul Moore wrote: How about "associativity means that how you pair up the operations does not affect the result"? I think a better way is this: If you have an element of a monoid, a, there are two ways to combine it with another ele

[Haskell-cafe] Mathematics for Uninterested

Hi, After recent rant "to Hell with Monoids and Mathematics" I felt like Galileo awaiting execution. I splashed toilet several times but the rant was still there, so I decided to find a scapegoat for this malfunctioning. Of cours your mathematic teachers are to blame. They are the product of ne

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Andrew Coppin wrote: Cory Knapp wrote: As far as I know, one of the draws of Haskell is the inherent mathematical nature of it. It's also simultaneously one of the biggest things that puts people off. Perhaps as we can curb this with sufficient documentation, as others have suggested. Actu

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Documentation [Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt]

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > How about "associativity means that how you pair up the operations > does not affect the result"? I think a better way is this: If you have an element of a monoid, a, there are two ways to combine it with another element, on the left or on th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:21 -0800, Jonathan Cast wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 18:14 -0500, Anton van Straaten wrote: > > Niklas Broberg wrote: > > >> I still think existential quantification is a step too far though. :-P > > > > > > Seriously, existential quantification is a REALLY simple concep

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Anton van Straaten wrote: >>> I still think existential quantification is a step too far though. :-P >> >> Seriously, existential quantification is a REALLY simple concept, that >> you would learn week two (or maybe three) in any introductory course >> on logic. I

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 18:14 -0500, Anton van Straaten wrote: > Niklas Broberg wrote: > >> I still think existential quantification is a step too far though. :-P > > > > Seriously, existential quantification is a REALLY simple concept, that > > you would learn week two (or maybe three) in any intro

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Open unqualified imports

On Friday 16 January 2009 9:42:46 am eyal.lo...@gmail.com wrote: > I think currently many modules are designed to be imported > unqualified, and this is unfortunate. Haskell' libraries can fix > this. For example, the various Monadic counterparts such as mapM, > replicateM, etc could do without th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Niklas Broberg wrote: I still think existential quantification is a step too far though. :-P Seriously, existential quantification is a REALLY simple concept, that you would learn week two (or maybe three) in any introductory course on logic. In fact, I would argue that far more people probably

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: > I'm guessing that you are reading something different into that > than what's intended - it's "client-side" in the sense that it can > only issue web requests and handle their responses. i.e., it > doesn't handle incoming HTTP requests and i

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Don Stewart schrieb: > lemming: >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: >> >>> I guess it's time to publish more widely the availability of a >>> modernization of the venerable and trusted HTTP package, which I've been >>> working on off&on for a while. >> I was always afraid that a fork m

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Sigbjorn Finne schrieb: > Hi Levi, > > I'm guessing that you are reading something different into that > than what's intended - it's "client-side" in the sense that it can > only issue web requests and handle their responses. i.e., it > doesn't handle incoming HTTP requests and issue suitable > r

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

> I still think existential quantification is a step too far though. :-P Seriously, existential quantification is a REALLY simple concept, that you would learn week two (or maybe three) in any introductory course on logic. In fact, I would argue that far more people probably know what existential

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Anton van Straaten wrote: Andrew Coppin wrote: Abstraction is a great thing to have. I'd just prefer it to not look so intimidating; What makes it look intimidating? If the answer is "it looks intimidating because the documentation consists of nothing more than a mathematical term, without a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Cory Knapp wrote: As far as I know, one of the draws of Haskell is the inherent mathematical nature of it. It's also simultaneously one of the biggest things that puts people off. Perhaps as we can curb this with sufficient documentation, as others have suggested. But there's a deeper probl

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Andrew Coppin wrote: Duncan Coutts wrote: [Monoids are] used quite a lot in Cabal. Package databases are monoids. Configuration files are monoids. Command line flags and sets of command line flags are monoids. Package build information is a monoid. OK, well then my next question would be "i

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Andrew Coppin wrote: Abstraction is a great thing to have. I'd just prefer it to not look so intimidating; What makes it look intimidating? If the answer is "it looks intimidating because the documentation consists of nothing more than a mathematical term, without a definition, and a referen

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

david48 wrote: > I don't care about the name, it's ok for me that the name > mathematicians defined is used, but there are about two categories of > people using haskell and > I would love that each concept would be adequately documented for everyone: > - real-world oriented programming documentati

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Well-put. Thanks! - Conal On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Dougal Stanton wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:54 PM, ChrisK > wrote: > > > > > So the original article, which coined 'Appendable', did so without much > > thought in the middle of a long post. But it does show the thinking w

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Thanks, Bob! I'm with on both counts: Monad is misrepresented as central in code composition; and (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (m a -> m b) is a much nicer type (for monadic extension), only in part because it encourages retraining away from sequential thinking. I encountered this nicer formulation

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Compiling regex-posix-0.93.2 on windows

I should note that you do not need to edit the .cabal file to do this. As of Cabal-1.4 there are extra command line flags to configure (or equivalently to cabal install) --extra-include-dirs=dir --extra-lib-dirs=dir Duncan I have seen the new cabal arguments. All I was giving was debugging a

[Haskell-cafe] ANN: dataenc 0.12

I've just uploaded version 0.12 of dataenc to HackageDB[1]: Data encoding library currently providing Uuencode, Base64, Base64Url, Base32, Base32Hex, Base16, Base85, and yEncoding. Versions0.9, 0.10.1, 0.10.2, 0.11, 0.11.1, 0.12 Dependenciesbase License BSD3 Copyright Magnus The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Steve Schafer writes: > But if the building is a run-of-the-mill design, then the engineer > checking it is unlikely to use anything beyond simple algebra. It's only > in case of unusual structures and one-offs (skyscrapers, most anything > built in Dubai these days, etc.) that engineers will rea

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Documentation [Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt]

2009/1/16 Andrew Coppin : > Either way, wherever the description gets put, just saying "associativity > means that (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)" is insufficient. Sure, that's the > *definition* of what it is, but we should point out that "associativity > means that the ordering of the operations does

[Haskell-cafe] Documentation [Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt]

Anton van Straaten wrote: It probably makes sense to do as Jeremy Shaw suggests and explicitly list the monoid laws, which would include the associative equality, but there really shouldn't be any other text in the definition of Monoid devoted to explaining what associativity means. Instead,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Ketil Malde wrote: The problem is that many Haskell constructs are so abstract and so general that precise names will be obscure to anybody with no background in logic (existential quantification), algebra (monoid) or category theory (monad). This level of abstraction is a great benefit, since i

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Hi Levi, I'm guessing that you are reading something different into that than what's intended - it's "client-side" in the sense that it can only issue web requests and handle their responses. i.e., it doesn't handle incoming HTTP requests and issue suitable responses. Web server implementation is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Philippa Cowderoy wrote: On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Duncan Coutts wrote: If you or anyone else has further concrete suggestions / improvements then post them here now! :-) Spell out what associativity means It probably makes sense to do as Jeremy Shaw suggests and explicitly list the monoid la

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:39:18PM -0600, Creighton Hogg wrote: > > For you folks who work on GHC, is it acceptable to open tickets for > poor documentation of modules in base? Personally, I don't think that doing so would make it more likely that someone would actually write the documentation; i

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 17:58 +, John Lato wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Duncan Coutts wrote: > > > >> If you or anyone else has further concrete suggestions / improvements > >> then post them here now! :-) > > Show various examples of how monoids apply to programming > concepts/problems, e.g.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Ross Paterson wrote: > On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:00:40PM -0500, David Menendez wrote: >> It would be nice to explain what operations have been chosen for the >> Monoid instances of Prelude data types. (Maybe this belongs in the >> Prelude documentation.) > > The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Simplification of this function?

2009/1/16 Andrew Wagner : > I've been playing around with this, but haven't been able to come up with > anything. > myFunc f (a,b) (c,d) = (f a c, f b d) > It feels as if there should be a nice simple version of this using some > combination of {un,}curry, "on", &&&, ***, or something else. > Any t

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Sounds very good to me. However I would like to as one question regarding the HTTP lib. On hackage I read: "HTTP: A library for client-side HTTP". Maybe you or someone on this list can tell me what the restrictions of the HTTP library are that restrict it to client side. What would be required to e

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Duncan Coutts wrote: > >> If you or anyone else has further concrete suggestions / improvements >> then post them here now! :-) Show various examples of how monoids apply to programming concepts/problems, e.g. monoids to combine configuration parameters/flags, monoids in wri

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell not ready for Foo [was: Re: Hypothetical Haskell job in New York]

john: > > On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:31 AM, John Goerzen wrote: > >By "pure" do you mean "containing python code only"? I'm looking > >through a few, and: > > Search for "pure python mysql" or "pure python postgresql" and you'll > see at least two implementations. In addition, there are plenty of

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Yes, please do. At some point soon, I will do and release a feature and performance benchmark on HTTP-3xxx, -4xxx, -lazy (if you release it), and cURL, that way people can use what's best for their application. On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Don Stewart wrote: > lemming: >> >> On Thu, 15 Jan

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

lemming: > > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: > > >I guess it's time to publish more widely the availability of a > >modernization of the venerable and trusted HTTP package, which I've been > >working on off&on for a while. > > I was always afraid that a fork may happen during I wor

Re: [Haskell-cafe] What could be considered "standard Haskell" these days?

briqueabraque: > Hi, > > I would like to take some time to study Haskell properly, so > that I could help others and pay my debt for the many times > I had to bother with my syntax questions. And, of course, > make better use of the language. > > My first attempt was to read the syntax descriptio

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:00:40PM -0500, David Menendez wrote: > A reference to the writer monad and to Data.Foldable might be helpful. > So far as I know they are the only uses of the Monoid abstraction in > the standard libraries. > > It's probably a good idea to explicitly state the three mono

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: I guess it's time to publish more widely the availability of a modernization of the venerable and trusted HTTP package, which I've been working on off&on for a while. Bunch of changes, but the headline new feature of this new version is the paramet

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:18:50 -0800, you wrote: >Really. So the engineer who designed the apartment building I'm in at >the moment didn't know any physics, thought `tensor' was a scary math >term irrelevant to practical, real-world engineering, and will only read >books on engineering that replace

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Duncan Coutts wrote: > Ross just updated the documentation for the Monoid module. Here is how > it reads now: > > The module header now reads simply: > >A class for monoids (types with an associative binary operation >that has an identity) with var

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Maintaining laziness

Am 14.01.2009 um 15:26 schrieb Henning Thielemann: See the List functions in http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/ utility-ht Version 0.0.1 was before applying StrictCheck, 0.0.2 after processing its suggestions. I have stopped when I saw that it repeatedly shows

Re: [Haskell-cafe] F# active patterns versus GHC's view

Peter, I think that's correct. I would really love to be able to make alternate constructors and views. I know we can make "specialized" constructors, but I don't think there's a good way to pattern match on these. It would be pretty sweet if we could. /jve On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Pete

Re: [Haskell-cafe] F# active patterns versus GHC's view

As far as I understand, record syntax and data accessor only give access to the data, they don't provide alternate views / interpretations of the data, something that Active Patterns or view patterns in Haskell do? On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Henning Thielemann < lemm...@henning-thielemann.de>

Re: [Haskell-cafe] about documentation improvements

Duncan Coutts ha scritto: On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:12 +0100, Manlio Perillo wrote: About latest thread on better naming and documentation improvement, why don't organize an interactive session where: 1) normal users tell what's wrong about a package/module documentation 2) the package/module a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Open unqualified imports

Eyal Lotem wrote: B) Code that has open unqualified imports may break when new symbols are added to the libraries its importing. This means that libraries cannot even be considered backwards compatible if they retain semantics, but add new exported names. This is not as uncommo

Re: [Haskell-cafe] about documentation improvements

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Duncan Coutts wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:12 +0100, Manlio Perillo wrote: >> About latest thread on better naming and documentation improvement, why >> don't organize an interactive session where: >> >> 1) norm

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Simplification of this function?

Sorry it won't work because list should be homogeneous. I think your myFunc is standard. This guy names it "thread": http://alaska-kamtchatka.blogspot.com/2009/01/essence-of-concatenative-languages.html On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 10:32 AM, sam lee wrote: > @pl myFunc f (a,b) (c,d) = (f a c, f b d)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Simplification of this function?

@pl myFunc f (a,b) (c,d) = (f a c, f b d) myFunc = (`ap` snd) . (. fst) . flip flip snd . ((flip . (ap .)) .) . flip flip fst . ((flip . ((.) .)) .) . (flip =<< (((.) . flip . (((.) . (,)) .)) .)) why not use zipWith? [a,b] `g` [c,d] where g = zipWith f 2009/1/16 Andrew Wagner > I've been p

Re: [Haskell-cafe] F# active patterns versus GHC's view

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, John Van Enk wrote: 2009/1/16 Peter Verswyvelen [...] After a while you decide that you need to change the Bla data type, maybe give Dog more fields, maybe completely redesign it, maybe not exposing it, but you want to keep existing code backwards compatible. With F# yo

Re: [Haskell-cafe] F# active patterns versus GHC's view

2009/1/16 Peter Verswyvelen > [...] > > After a while you decide that you need to change the Bla data type, maybe > give Dog more fields, maybe completely redesign it, maybe not exposing it, > but you want to keep existing code backwards compatible. With F# you can > write Active Patterns for the

[Haskell-cafe] Simplification of this function?

I've been playing around with this, but haven't been able to come up with anything. myFunc f (a,b) (c,d) = (f a c, f b d) It feels as if there should be a nice simple version of this using some combination of {un,}curry, "on", &&&, ***, or something else. Any thoughts? ___

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Hello, Personally, I would like to see the laws more explicitly listed. Some like: -- The Monoid Laws: -- -- 1. Associative: -- --x `mappend` (y `mappend` z) == (x `mappend` y) `mappend` z -- -- 2. Left Identity: -- -- mempty `mappend` y == y -- -- 3. Right identity: -- -- x `mappend` me

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 14:16 +0100, david48 wrote: > Part of the problem is that something like a monoid is so general that > I can't wrap my head around why going so far in the abstraction. > For example, the writer monad works with a monoid; using the writer > monad with strings makes sense becaus

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: gain access to www.haskell.org and update http://www.haskell.org/http, so for now you may pick up a new version the lib via http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/HTTP GIT repo for HTTP-4000 / HTTPbis is here git://code.galo

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Hello Sigbjorn, Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:42:06 PM, you wrote: first question: are these packages (http, curl, curl-shell, webclient) windows-compatible? second - that is advantages of using http (or webclient) over curl? sorry if questions are stupid - i'm pretty ignorant here :) > Thanks J

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Open unqualified imports

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, eyal.lo...@gmail.com wrote: import qualified Control.Monad as M M.for M.map and so on. http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Qualified_names ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listin

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Open unqualified imports

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, eyal.lo...@gmail.com wrote: I believe that the last type, open-unqualified is a really bad idea, and should be discouraged or even disallowed. It should definitely not be the default, like it is today. You are not alone: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Import_modules_pr

Re: [Haskell-cafe] about documentation improvements

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 03:12:21PM +0100, Manlio Perillo wrote: > About latest thread on better naming and documentation improvement, why > don't organize an interactive session where: > > 1) normal users tell what's wrong about a package/module documentation > 2) the package/module author/mainta

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Open unqualified imports

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:42 PM, eyal.lo...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to suggest a change to Haskell prime's handling of > imports. > > First, let me define a few terms: > > Qualified import: > import qualified Data.Map [as Map] > > Closed-unqualified import: > import Data.Map(Map, l

[Haskell-cafe] Open unqualified imports

Hi, I would like to suggest a change to Haskell prime's handling of imports. First, let me define a few terms: Qualified import: import qualified Data.Map [as Map] Closed-unqualified import: import Data.Map(Map, lookup) Open-unqualified import: import Data.Map I believe that the last type, op

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Thanks Jeff, regarding having to use both HTTP and cURL -- or perhaps only the latter for code simplicitly -- that will probably remain the case for quite a while still. To help with that situation, I put together an over-arching 'webclient' library that abstracts over the transport layers (HT

Re: [Haskell-cafe] about documentation improvements

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:12 +0100, Manlio Perillo wrote: > About latest thread on better naming and documentation improvement, why > don't organize an interactive session where: > > 1) normal users tell what's wrong about a package/module documentation > 2) the package/module author/maintainer fi

Re: [Haskell-cafe] What could be considered "standard Haskell" these days?

Hello Mauricio, Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:00:58 PM, you wrote: > So: if someone wants to learn the details of the language, > what could be the subset of extensions one should learn > and make regular use, and also include in code supposed > to be used by others in the long term? probably Hask

[Haskell-cafe] about documentation improvements

About latest thread on better naming and documentation improvement, why don't organize an interactive session where: 1) normal users tell what's wrong about a package/module documentation 2) the package/module author/maintainer fix the documentation in real time, so that users can review it a

Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Hello david48, Friday, January 16, 2009, 4:16:51 PM, you wrote: > Upon reading this thread, I asked myself : what's a monoid ? I had no > idea. I read some posts, then google "haskell monoid". it would be interesting to google "C++ class" or "Lisp function" and compare experience :) -- Best r

[Haskell-cafe] What could be considered "standard Haskell" these days?

Hi, I would like to take some time to study Haskell properly, so that I could help others and pay my debt for the many times I had to bother with my syntax questions. And, of course, make better use of the language. My first attempt was to read the syntax description in Haskell 98 report, and th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 22:36 -0800, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: > Another change/fix in this release is the _alleged_ fix to the > long-standing bug in the use of absolute URIs vs absolute paths in > requests (for non-proxied and proxied use.) Give it a go.. cabal-install with HTTP-3001.x: $ cabal up

[Haskell-cafe] [ANNOUNCE] Darcs 2.2.0.

Hi all! I am happy to announce general availability of darcs 2.2.0. Getting the release --- For this release, we have decided to provide two flavours, depending on the build system used: 1) The source tarball, , which can be built usin

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

Just as a reported speedup, downloading a 5MB file from my own local machine (via http) went from 1.05 secs to 0.053 secs. Yes, it's really an order of magnitude better. Performance now is on par or slightly better than cURL (however to get more protocols than HTTP, you'll still need the ubiquito

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Duncan Coutts wrote: > If you or anyone else has further concrete suggestions / improvements > then post them here now! :-) > Spell out what associativity means and what it means for that operation to have an identity. List a few examples (stating that they're not all inst

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, John Goerzen wrote: > Several people have suggested this, and I think it would go a long way > towards solving the problem. The problem is: this documentation can > really only be written by those that understand the concepts, > understand how they are used practically, and h

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Ketil Malde malde.org> writes: > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 07:46:02PM +, Andrew Coppin wrote: > > > If we *must* insist on using the most obscure possible name for > > everything, > > I don't think anybody even suggests using obscure names. Some people > insist on precise names. > K

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Andrew Coppin wrote: > I was especially amused by the assertion that "existential quantification" is > a more precise term than "type variable hiding". (The former doesn't even tell > you that the feature in question is related to the type system! Even the few > people in my p

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 14:16 +0100, david48 wrote: > Upon reading this thread, I asked myself : what's a monoid ? I had no > idea. I read some posts, then google "haskell monoid". > > The first link leads me to Data.Monoid which starts with > > << > Description > The Monoid class with various gen

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Philippa Cowderoy wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Lennart Augustsson wrote: > >> If I see Monoid I know what it is, if I didn't know I could just look >> on Wikipedia. > > And if you're a typical programmer who is now learning Haskell, this will > likely make you wan

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Andrew Coppin wrote: > I don't know about you, but rather than knowing that joinFoo is associative, > I'd be *far* more interested in finding out what it actually _does_. A good many descriptions won't tell you whether it's associative though, and sometimes you need to know

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

2009/1/16 Apfelmus, Heinrich : > How to learn? The options are, in order of decreasing effectiveness > > university course teacher in person > book irc > mailing list > online tutorial > haskell wiki > haddock documentation Reason by analogy from

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Lennart Augustsson wrote: > If I see Monoid I know what it is, if I didn't know I could just look > on Wikipedia. And if you're a typical programmer who is now learning Haskell, this will likely make you want to run screaming and definitely be hard to understand. We at leas

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 18:41 -0500, Cale Gibbard wrote: > 2009/1/15 Andrew Coppin : > > OK, well then my next question would be "in what say is defining > > configuration files as a monoid superior to, uh, not defining them as a > > monoid?" What does it allow you to do that you couldn't otherwise?

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Creighton Hogg wrote: > For you folks who work on GHC, is it acceptable to open tickets for > poor documentation of modules in base? I think leaving the > documentation to the tragedy of the commons isn't the best move, but > if even a few of us could remember to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

I have to say, I agree with Lennart here. Terms like monoid have had a precise definition for a very long time. Replacing an ill-defined term by a vaguely defined term only serves to avoid facing ones ignorance - IMHO an unwise move for a technical expert. Learning Haskell has often been

Re: [Haskell-cafe] some ideas for Haskell', from Python

Artyom Shalkhakov ha scritto: [...] Prelude> :l foo.hs [1 of 1] Compiling Main ( foo.hs, interpreted ) Ok, modules loaded: Main. *Main> isDirectory "/var" :1:0: Ambiguous occurrence `isDirectory' It could refer to either `Main.isDirectory', defined at foo.hs:6:0

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Thorkil Naur wrote: > Peter Verswyvelen wrote: >> >> It is rather funny. When we are young kids, we learn weird symbols like >> >> A B C a b c 1 2 3 >> >> which we accept after a while. >> >> But Functor, Monoid or Monad, that we cannot accept anymore. Why, because >> these are not intuitive? Ar

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

It's a criticism already voiced by the great David Bowie: "My Brain Hurt like a warehouse, it had no room to spare I had to cram so many things to store everything in there" Immanuel On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 4:34 PM, John Goerzen wrote: > Hi folks, > > Don Stewart noticed this blog post on Ha

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Eugene Kirpichov wrote: > That looks like a freakin' cool idea; however very hard to implement; > so why not write such wikis in predefined places, like, > haskell.org/haskellwiki/Data/Monoid/ and allow haddock to > automatically put links there from the generated

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

That looks like a freakin' cool idea; however very hard to implement; so why not write such wikis in predefined places, like, haskell.org/haskellwiki/Data/Monoid/ and allow haddock to automatically put links there from the generated documentation? This would make the documentation (on the wiki) mor

library documentation comments and contributions (was [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt)

2) the Haskell docs _don't_ do good enough a job at giving intuition for what math terms mean If we fix #2, then #1 is no longer a problem, yes? For you folks who work on GHC, is it acceptable to open tickets for poor documentation of modules in base? I think leaving the documentation to the tr

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

2009/1/15 Derek Elkins : > On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 18:27 +, Lennart Augustsson wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> > >> > Mathematical precision isn't appropriate in all disciplines. >> > >> That's very true. But programming is one where mathematical precision >> is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Dan Piponi wrote: >> Several people have suggested this, and I think it would go a long way >> towards solving the problem. > > That sounds like a good plan. Which precise bit of documentation > should I update? Make a new wiki page? Put it in here: > http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/li

Re: [Haskell-cafe] F# active patterns versus GHC's view

Hi Luke, On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Luke Palmer wrote: > However, I think it is flawed, since the following >> >> case c of >> Polar _ _ -> "it's polar!" >> Rect _ _ -> "it's rect!" >> >> seems like valid code but does not make any sense. >> > > I think it's okay, given that we u

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Here is a great "Monoid found in the wild story": I just implemented a library for binary message serialization that follows Google's protocol buffer format. The documentation of this was very scattered in some respects but I kept reading snippets which I have pasted below. The effect of the

Re: Names in Haskell (Was: [Haskell-cafe] Comments from OCaml HackerBr ian Hurt)

2009/1/16 Derek Elkins : >> I think the name issue is a red herring. The real issue is that, after >> being confronted by a concept with an unfamiliar name, it can be very >> difficult to figure out the nature of the concept. That is, it's not the >> name itself that's the problem, it's the fact th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANN: HTTPbis / HTTP-4000.x package available

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Sigbjorn Finne wrote: I guess it's time to publish more widely the availability of a modernization of the venerable and trusted HTTP package, which I've been working on off&on for a while. I was always afraid that a fork may happen during I work on HTTP in order to get

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

Dan Weston wrote: Richard Feinman once said: "if someone says he understands quantum mechanics, he doesn't understand quantum mechanics". But what did he know... Well, I am a physicist and Feynman (with a y, not an i), is not talking about the linear algebra. Of course, linear algebra [1]

[Haskell-cafe] 3 applications of "indexed composition" as a language design principle

Haskellians, i've found a way to generalize the LogicT transformer and calculated it's application to three fairly interesting examples. The approach -- with some sample codes as scala+lift web apps -- is described here

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Comments from OCaml Hacker Brian Hurt

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:54 PM, ChrisK wrote: > > So the original article, which coined 'Appendable', did so without much > thought in the middle of a long post. But it does show the thinking was > about collections and there is one ONE instance of Monoid at > > http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs

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