Back from vacation
> What exactly is the DESC file?
It describes the capabilities of an output device. See the
groff_font manpage for details of what the device does.
> When I type in "groff" on my Debian testing box all it
> does is wait for input (it doesn't return any output).
Right. Giv
e of years
back, about how I got it working. You have to compile with
WIDOW_CONTROL=1 set somewhere, turn it on, and make a couple of minor
changes to paragraph macros.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
http://ho
tioned in the referenced message was added to the source
tree IIRC. Some macro hacking might be required to completely implement
the feature.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
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for "html to latex" (use the quotes for a change!)
to find some possible utilities. You could also use doclifter to
transform to DocBook then transform that to *TeX, but you'd probably
have to do some manual cleanup after each transformation.
Hope that helps
--
Larry Kollar k
I've rewritten the m.tmac patch to reflect changes in www.tmac. No
functional changes beyond the previous patch; it simply marks headings
for grohtml and disables headers & footers.
m.tmac.patch
Description: Binary data
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
take the time to sit down and get familiar with it.
I got stuck looking for a quote for the release note a while back, and
I guess
I'll just go with what I have for the announcement. (It's at
http://home.alltel.net/~kollar/utp/press-release.txt if anyone hasn't
seen it.)
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Larry K
e who
would get the joke are already subscribed to this list. :-P
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I've attached a patch to www.tmac and a test file (for the testsuite) that
implements numbered and definition lists.
One thing I'm not happy with yet is how list items get wrapped in paragraph
tags, like this:
blah blah foo
I think that's grohtml getting a little too enthusiastic, but I haven
I forgot the documentation update. Use this patch tarball instead.
-- Larry
www_tmac.tar.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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document markup, especially parts that you like
and want to repeat in your own documents. And at some point
you need to stop reading and start writing. :-)
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http://h
meone
subscribed to the groff list -- or someone who knows someone (I doubt
it's more than one degree of separation) has been infested.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
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__
off is easier to compile
than many other Free packages of similar size. From what Werner & Larry
Jones were saying, it sounds like it might be a compiler bug in BSD/OS.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
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so it's a good idea to keep it
around to re-install after a routine system update.
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yself and put it
on a webpage somewhere.
I've built a .pkg of the 1.19.1 release. All dressed up & needs a
website. ;-)
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ng to end up doing most of the work, so it's his call in the end.
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includes support (and documentation) for creating PDF files.
Hope that helps. If you can't compile your own version, let us know
what OS you're running & someone here can probably furnish you with a
package.
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p; there's at least one person out there who depends
on groff's raw formatting speed. Could this be kicked to the post-
processor? That would be the best of both worlds; choose grops when
you value speed over flexibility and gronative (groos? gross?) when
it's the other way arou
in the archives.
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Larry Kollark o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
"The hardest part of all this is the part that requires thinking."
-- Paul Tyson, on xml-doc
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> The `XS', `XA' and `XE' macros collect the TOC entries into a
> diversion, which is flushed when `TC' is called; to cover the entire
> document, this has to come at the end. This is the way `ms' has
> always worked, both in groff and traditional troff implementations
Just rank speculation, in t
> Would it not, perhaps, be better to provide a separate generalised
> TOC processing macro module, `gentoc.tmac' say, which could then
> be .mso'd by ms, mm, or any other macro package wishing to exploit
> its functionality?
I *like* this idea. The devil, as usual, is in the (implementation) deta
ng it, but you could try using -Thtml and
(after cleaning up), use one of several HTML to LaTeX converters to finish the
job. If you try it, make sure you use groff 1.19.2 or CVS -- there were several
improvements to both grohtml and m.tmac to help them play better together.
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Larry Kollar
ng it over the default version.
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characters.
Finally, you may want to download a copy of "Unix Text
Processing" (see the URL in my signature) if you need a
tutorial.
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r can be with just
a little help, that Word should be able to open it easily. I just
tried opening a test HTML file in OpenOffice 1.x and it actually
looked pretty good. Now getting back to groff from ODF, that
will take a little more work
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l
x tools I
learned so long ago, I've been able to pull miracles out
of my... back pocket. Things like sales people asking,
"um, can you get the Word file back out of this PDF? Joe
Random quit and deleted the doc file."
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
g like it.
I need to get UTP onto bkbits. I had tried doing it way back when
it was offered, then I couldn't get on. This was during the time
Linux and Bitkeeper parted ways, so I presume some bozo was
DOSing the site. It seems to be OK now.
So I'll get it put up there & open things
ain it
would be less work to transform directly to groff.
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ith
markup in ASCII files instead of FrameMaker. Even if they're not
doing the DTP end, if they send back translated source in Unicode,
it wouldn't be hard to handle.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Re
onster print jobs. (We could put that under a
heading like, "Scale THIS!" :-D)
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earch. Its only drawback is a
heavy dependence on JavaScript, but otherwise it seems
like a good way to put long documents online.
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__
the writer and the work involved.
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/w/kitzkikz.php?page=Sogudi
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dered important.
But I agree with Alejandro that *roff is a nearly ideal markup
language for hand-coding (I consider *TeX to be too verbose
as well). The short commands don't get in your way and let
you add markup while you're typing with little or no distraction.
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Larry Kolla
e
PDF when you can, and skip it (without aborting make) when you
can't.
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to disable building them.
Now I don't blame you for balking; autoconf is a hideous beast & I don't
like to poke around in there either. :-)
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http://home.alltel.net/kollar
n occasion,
There are Wiki variants that provide page rollback, diff, and so
on, which provide some ways to mitigate WikiSpam, vandalism,
and so forth. LyX (wiki.lyx.org) uses one called PmWiki
(http://www.pmichaud.com/pub/pmwiki).
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
ff
is different and much larger. Strangely enough, it comments `lbl'
as supported preprocessor.
I'll bet that's a typo & it's supposed to be "tbl" instead.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UT
. I'll take Free tools and a command line any day,
though.
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a good binding needs craftsmanship.
For which you need a binding press. I have a copy of a PDF
showing rough plans for a DIY binding press on my computer
at work, but the my VPN client is flaked up at the moment. If
someone sends me a reminder Monday, I'll dig it up & post it.
--
Larry Kollar
I couldn't find the PDF on my computer... but I had better luck finding the
original in Google -- it was from a Linux Gazette article. The article includes
notes that make the PDF more understandable (the link to the PDF is at the
bottom of the article).
http://linuxgazette.net/issue47/nielsen.
saved into
folders of the same name... pending author permission, of course. If
anyone wants to reprint an email of mine to the wiki, that's fine
with me.
And it's only fitting that the wiki itself is written in awk.
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
mikkel meinike wrote:
> Is it possible to format/compile the book UTP one chapter at a time,
> so that I get one ps file for each chapter if yes what is the command
> that I need for doeing this.
make ch01
make ch02
...etc...
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
.
Vim for Mac (both Gvim and the vim shipped with Tiger) support syntax
highlighting for general groff. There's a Java editor called jEdit
that (I think) also can do it. Having vi codes programmed into my
fingers over 20 years ago, I tend to not bother with other text
editors. ;-)
--
t;download.dejavu" file to "download" or cat it to the end of the
current download file.
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Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
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9's troff
(based on AT&T, but extended to work with Unicode, more or less,
IIRC). There are other troff implementations too, but AFAIK they are
all based on the old AT&T troff.
Interesting. How many of those are in active use, beyond formatting
manpages, I wonder
--
Larry Kolla
; have started porting one manual I'm working
on to groff. If the translators don't have a coronary when they
see the source files, I'll do more.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
http://home.alltel.net/k
ff & the
postprocessor?). It would be nice to have access to all the TrueType
and PostScript fonts installed on the system without having to build
metric files and so forth.
If I were to poke at this, where would I start?
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
for UTP Revisited so those who are interested can get started soon.
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Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
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> Miklos Somogyi wrote:
>
>>>The simplest thing to do is to use 9 after viii, not 1.
>>
>> This is against all rules of typography.
>
> I have seen quite a few pdf books/manuals that are against all rules of
> typography, e.g. ...
>
> This "i, ii, ..., 1, 2" system was all right in the age
Werner LEMBERG wrote:
The groff_ms manpage doesn't describe the header & footer macros
(HT, PT, BT). I've attached a patch containing brief descriptions
of each.
Thanks, applied. Please do the same for groff.texinfo.
Here's the patch.

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Larry Kollar k o l
users the trouble.
Commercial documentation uses both headers and footers pretty often
-- in over 20 years of technical writing, I can't remember seeing a
"house style" that *doesn't* use both.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text
et's try this again.

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The groff_ms manpage doesn't describe the header & footer macros (HT, PT,
BT). I've attached a patch containing brief descriptions of each.
-- Larry
msman.patch.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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Running "make" on the CVS, I get this:
[everything OK up to here]
rm -f pdfmark.pdf
export GROFF_COMMAND_PREFIX; GROFF_COMMAND_PREFIX=''; export
GROFF_BIN_DIR; GROFF_BIN_DIR=/Users/larry/Projects/groff/src/roff/groff;
export GROFF_BIN_PATH; GROFF_BIN_PATH=`echo /Users/larry/Projects/
groff/src/r
I did "make clean," updated, did a configure & make, and everything
seems to be working properly now. Sorry for the false alarm.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival&q
8x).
"0x2000" Disable AGP 8x (forces 4x).
.TE
One thing I have noticed, when you don't use T{ T}, tbl won't wrap
even if the row runs off the end of the paper.
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l .
Larry Kollar wrote:
I did "make clean," updated, did a configure & make, and everything
seems to be working properly now. Sorry for the false alarm.
But then a trivial change to pdfroff.ms broke it again.
I guess I should bite the bullet, install it, and see if that take
ut them getting stomped out when you
upgrade.
Also, I see the AddingFonts instructions I wrote for the Groff Wiki
got completely replaced -- were they totally wrong or what?
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival&
Keith MARSHALL wrote:
Larry Kollar wrote, quoting himself:
I did "make clean," updated, did a configure & make, and everything
seems to be working properly now. Sorry for the false alarm.
But then a trivial change to pdfroff.ms broke it again.
pdfroff.ms??? That is
Heinz-Jürgen Oertel wrote:
Also, I see the AddingFonts instructions I wrote for the Groff Wiki
got completely replaced -- were they totally wrong or what?
Larry, wasn't it http://www.groff-wiki.info/ConvertingTrueTypeFonts
D'OH! You're right.
--
Larry Kollar k o l l
---
The tbl method. Unfortunately, this method won't automatically return
to the left margin.
.\" --
.TS
expand;
lw(2.1i) l .
T{
.PSPIC -L foo.ps 2i
T} T{
text text text
T}
.TE
.\" --
--
>> the MPIMG macro should be available via the -mwww
>> macroset, which should also work with Postscript.
>
> Yes, I am aware of the www macros. The document I'm
> writing is quite long, is full of -ms macros
> This does not really seem like
> the use for which -mwww is intended.
Actually,
gick.org/ -
links to a binary that should work for you.
Hope that helps!
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ht
My daughter (high school age) is getting fed up with AppleWorks and TextEdit
for writing reports, and is ready to try something new. I remember depending
pretty heavily on a cheat sheet in my first little while with *roff, 20+ years
ago.
So before I re-invent the wheel, has anyone done it alrea
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Sourcing a file like this:
.so ~/Library/XSL/html2ms.xsl
Using either straight groff or soelim, I get the message:
./single.ms:207: can't open `~/Library/XSL/html2ms.xsl': No such file
or directory
It works with an explicit path. Is this a bug or a feature?
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Larry Kolla
as a Un*x idiom rather than a
shell idiom.
Do this instead:
.so \V[HOME]/Library/XSL/html2ms.xsl
That should do it -- thanks for the pointer. I really need to get a
cheat sheet together....
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: &qu
ent workaround and a real
fix in CVS. Other things like TOC, Index, cross-references, and
bitmap graphic support are supported through long-established
workflows, without excess baggage where such things aren't needed.
What do you see as major constraints with groff at this time?
--
Lar
ot two PostScript printers] is a
chimera that has led to all sorts of problems for technical writers
who often *have* to publish the same documents as (usually) PDF and
HTML. I like that phrase, "device optimized" -- it recognizes that
different publishing media work differently
Good to see you again, Michael!
> I've a wierd problem I'm trying to track down. Hopefully my
> explanation will make sense. First, some software versions:
> MacIntosh OS X version 10.4.5 running groff 1.19.1 and gv 3.6.1
Is that the version of groff that ships with OSX? Things *should* have
/usr/share/groff/1.19.1/font/devps/DESC
and change the line that begins with "papersize" to read "papersize
letter" for a permanent fix.
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Unix Text Processing: "UTP Rev
compressed data
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B) gives you a fallback format if the CSS goes missing or a browser
doesn't support it (or the user turned off CSS). Of course, you can
use SPAN if you want the fallback to be plain text.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Te
-P
I'd guess the "Other Commercial" is mostly split between Weird and
FrameMaker. Kind of hard to tell, since
"Other Commercial" is the *only* choice for commercial software.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix
w placement of GIF and/or
JPEG images as well as PNG... seems like older graphical browsers
also would do XBM, but I don't know if they bother nowadays
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: &qu
- even though I made a 1.19.1 package & keep it handy. I
probably should make a 1.19.2 package too; I'm using a lot of the
latest stuff (PDF, grohtml) and need more.
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP
'll be glad to
test it.
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roduced in step 6, and
use the Acrobat crop tool to crop the page to the size
of the graphic image. and then re-save it.
8. Within any document where you want the graph to
appear, import the PDF produced in step 7 by reference
or copy, as appropriate.
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Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> > It sounds like a good idea, but there are so many potential
> > enhancements that would make tbl easier to live with that it's
> > almost worth a rewrite.
>
> Hmm, can you post a TODO, please?
My short list is primarily cosmetic (the goal is to require a minimal
amoun
This patch provides PORPHANS support (if the register has been
defined) for list items.
Amazing, the little nits you find when you start using this stuff in
the Real World. :-)

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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival&
ll we need is a Groff Anthem to be sung at the next
International Groff
Confernece ;)
A Groff Anthem? That should be interesting. Maybe a variation of
"Sing Hosanna," which would naturally start "Sing Ossanna"
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I was wondering if there was a way to, for example, print the result
of \n%+1 without using a junk variable. I didn't see a request
equivalent to "eval" in the manpages or the texinfo thing.
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Unix Text P
tch
Description: Binary data
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...'"), then wrote an awk script to pull what I wanted out of the
MIB files.
After a bit of debugging, and writing a Q&D ".xx" macro to format the
index, I was ready to see what I had. What I had was 253 pages of 8-
point text, formatted properly.
Back to the drawin
y (of AT&T).
And please, other GNU projects, could we have something more out of your
manpages than a list of command-line options and "see the info file"? If we
wanted to see the info file, we would have gone there.
Grumble. Off to improve the ptx(1) pa
sed by Sun as part of OpenSolaris, which are a variant
of ditroff, which, in turn, descends to the historical Unix troff
that generated output for the C/A/T phototypesetter."
There might be something worth cherry-picking. :-)
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Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l
Joerg van den Hoff wrote:
Larry Kollar wrote:
I stumbled across this today, and didn't see anything about it in
the archives.
http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/doctools.html
that's rather interesting! installation is a bit funny: you have to
edit `mk.config' and set l
; to have smaller
width, or whatever) so that it sticks out by the right amount.
Ditto.
Wasn't there a compile-time option for hanging punctuation at one
time, similar to the widow/orphan option? A quick grep doesn't turn
it up in the source, so perhaps I was hallucinating.
--
La
> I am using the pdfref macros from Kees Zeelenberg found here
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2001-01/msg00047.html.
>
> It works nicely together with the ms macros. I better should say
> worked. We updated to version 1.19.2 and now it doesn't work
> anymore.
In the referenced message
Nick Stoughton wrote:
> I've had similar problems with long tables, particularly where a column
> is longer than a page ... that is, there are too many lines between
> T{ and }T to fit this column on a single page. In this case, tbl says
>
> warning: page 236: table text block will not fit on
Tables that *should* be commented out using the .ig / .. construct still
appear in the output. I first noticed this in 1.19.2, but it also appears in
the
CVS.
Here's an example file:
.\" start --
.LP
The following table should be seen:
.TS
allbox;
cb cb
n l .
V
> > I also had to use cvs login to get a checkout started (restoring
> > important parts of an office computer). I added it to the wiki as
> > well.
>
> Really? How comes?
I'm not sure why. It was behind the firewall at work, and CVS to the "outside"
has exhibited flaky behavior in the past (s
John Poltorak wrote:
>
> Is there any way to use groff for creating addresses using standard Avery
> labels?
I wrote a "labels" macro package a while back; it has a definition file for
Avery
5160 address labels.
http://home.alltel.net/kollar/groff/
-- Larry
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Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> Urs showed up an interesting problem in groff: A hyphen between two
> numbers does *not* insert a breakpoint! To be more specific, the
> .cflags values 2 and 4 of a character x are only active if the
> characters before and after x both have non-zero hyphenation codes (as
Ted Harding wrote:
> On 10-Aug-06 Steve Izma wrote:
>>
>> Well, I'll disagree. [...] when setting
>> indexes on short lines (e.g., two columns on book page, which
>> gives you about 10 to 12 picas, usually indented), any place
>> where you can get a line break is very important.
>
> Yes, that d
> I wonder why it is that paragraphs inside a -ms .RS/.RE block get turned
> into a table by grohtml.
>
> The same happens with .IP. (maybe other requests too.)
>
> Wouldn't it be better if a were generated with an indentation? And
> an unordered list for .IPs?
>
> For example...
>
>
> .RS
Clarke Echols wrote:
> I would like to have a broader selection of fonts on my system, but
> dislike the idea of paying $50 or more each for them.
>
> Are there any sites where one can download *.pfb or *.pfa files that
> can be used with groff?
There are lots of sites with free fonts; I think
.DE
See "Displays and keeps" in groff_ms(7) for more variations.
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
http://unixtext.org/
___
Groff mailing list
Groff@gnu.org
ht
before using up paper. I use
this method on MacOSX, since my work requires PDF output anyway.
Hope that helps
--
Larry Kollar k o l l a r @ a l l t e l . n e t
Unix Text Processing: "UTP Revival"
http://unixtext.org/
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