Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Peter Schaffter : > Eric -- > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2014, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > - Increased use of browsers shifts the commonest use cases for man pages > > in a direction that rewards structural rather than presentational markup. > > > > This is a tad OT, but do you know for a fact there's

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Charlie Kester
On Sun 16 Mar 2014 at 01:57:31 PDT Eric S. Raymond wrote: Here's what I think is going on. There are two different access cases for man pages: directed and serendipitous. In the directed case, you know the man page you want. You browse it locally, through a terminal emulator or (if you're me)

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Charlie, > Since then there have been lots of tweaks to automate as much as > possible, but at the heart there is still a need to manually > categorize the commands. I wish manpages would contain something that > would help with that. The existing section numbers are next to > useless, since

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ted Harding
On 15-Mar-2014 09:52:59 Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Ingo, > >> > - real number arithmetic to replace current integer arithmetic >> >> Do you really mean "replace", or rather something like "complement" >> or "provide in addition to"? If you do mean "replace", i fear >> compatibility issues. Besi

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Charlie Kester
On Sun 16 Mar 2014 at 09:40:44 PDT Ralph Corderoy wrote: Hi Charlie, Since then there have been lots of tweaks to automate as much as possible, but at the heart there is still a need to manually categorize the commands. I wish manpages would contain something that would help with that. The ex

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Ted, > What eqn does when reducing point sizes for these is, at each stage, > issue a troff request > > .ps (u;\\n[.ps]*7+5/10>?5) > > whose effect is that provided the result exceeds 5 [points] use > this as the point-size; otherwise use 5 points. > > So, for instance, if initially in 10-po

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi again Ted, > > What eqn does when reducing point sizes for these is, at each stage, > > issue a troff request > > > > .ps (u;\\n[.ps]*7+5/10>?5) > > > > whose effect is that provided the result exceeds 5 [points] use this > > as the point-size; otherwise use 5 points. > > > > So, for instance,

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Ted, > The values I chose for the constants in the expression were motivated > by aiming for a reduction by 1/cuberoot(2) as one moves up one level > of superscript, so that the point size of "z" in "$X sup V sup 2 sup > z$" would be about half that of X: cuberoot(2) = 1.26, 14/11 = 1.27 -- > b

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ted Harding
On 16-Mar-2014 18:42:43 Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Ted, > >> What eqn does when reducing point sizes for these is, at each stage, >> issue a troff request >> >> .ps (u;\\n[.ps]*7+5/10>?5) >> >> whose effect is that provided the result exceeds 5 [points] use >> this as the point-size; otherwise

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ted Harding
On 16-Mar-2014 19:38:25 Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Ted, > >> The values I chose for the constants in the expression were motivated >> by aiming for a reduction by 1/cuberoot(2) as one moves up one level >> of superscript, so that the point size of "z" in "$X sup V sup 2 sup >> z$" would be about h

[Groff] Manpages, groff, and the browser.

2014-03-16 Thread Kristaps Dzonsons
Hi folks, In the last few weeks, there's been some confusing mention of manpages on this list. Confusing because some of the issues raised, in my eyes, aren't really issues at all. So I thought I'd pipe up in the hopeful interests of clarity. To begin on familiar ground, by manpages I mean

Re: [Groff] how to use groffer

2014-03-16 Thread Bernd Warken
> Von: "Ralph Corderoy" > > > I tried to use it on the way I found it here: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2005-10/msg00087.html > > > > groffer --ps table > > > > It doesn't work at all for me. The terminal freezes. > > I have to make ctrl+c to get a new command prompt. > > I'

Re: [Groff] Manpages, groff, and the browser.

2014-03-16 Thread Eric S. Raymond
Kristaps Dzonsons : > Browsers are confusing because HTML doesn't play with > character-driven media. And roff(7), into which groff(1) translates > man(7) and mdoc(7), is (significantly?) character-driven. We hack > around this by converting -Tascii output into -wrapped > documents. But that's n

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Ted, > 'eqn' does not put the "z" in, so I think between us we have uncovered > a deficiency in 'eqn'. Quite where in the 'eqn' code this lurks is not > obvious (to me at the moment). http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/groff.git/tree/src/preproc/eqn/box.cpp#n268 void set_script_size()

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> printf(".ps (u;\\n[.ps]*7+5/10>?%d)\n", minimum_size); A bug, introduced in 2002 by Tadziu :-) To be device-independent, `minimum_size' must have the `z' scaling indicator, as your experiments clearly show. Fixed in git, and thanks for the report. Werner

Re: [Groff] Mission statement

2014-03-16 Thread Dave Kemper
On 3/15/14, Pierre-Jean wrote: >> . Implement TeX's paragraph formatting or something similar - I >>consider groff's line-oriented paragraph formatting as its weakest >>point. See heirloom troff for an example how this could be >>implemented. >> >> http://heirloom.sourceforge.ne

Re: [Groff] how to use groffer

2014-03-16 Thread Werner LEMBERG
>> > groffer --ps table >> > >> > It doesn't work at all for me. The terminal freezes. >> > I have to make ctrl+c to get a new command prompt. > > It seems that the bug comes from groff, not only from groffer. Can > anyone try to fix this bug? Please describe the problem in more detail.