Re: [Groff] antiquity of troff

2010-06-02 Thread Meg McRoberts
When I started at Bell Labs in 1983, we had nroff/mmx and then there was troff that was only for typesetting.  We wrote all the docs in nroff then used troff to format this text for a typesetter and made any necessary formatting changes on bluelines. Pretty soon after that, we got device-independe

Re: [Groff] Replacing groff with troff?

2010-06-02 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Charlie, > You'd have to ask the author of mdocml what he means by that. I'd be > interested in hearing the answer too. He replied privately off-list, having seen the list post. I wouldn't like to pass it on here unless he gives the OK. > I didn't join this thread to make (or defend) those

Re: [Groff] antiquity of troff

2010-06-02 Thread Walter Alejandro Iglesias
Hello Some of you seems to be Unix veterans. I bought my first computer in 2005. Before this date I did not know how to power on it :). But I am forty two years old and I know something about other things and I am able to draw an analogy. In several occasions, I've attempted to show my point o

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Anton Shepelev
Mike Bianchi: > When I do need something special or "improved" then I make my own macro > and carry it around with me. I have my own MM macros that I > have carried around for decades, going back to my days at Bell Labs. I wonder, how do you 'deploy' your own MM macros? Just pick the ones y

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi Anton, > I can manage a two-part macro like .(MyPS and .)MyPS, so I could > reset the indent upon exit. But I don't know how to do it using only > one macro. I probably have to 'subscribe' to some 'call-back' macro > that gets called every time a paragraph (in groff's sense) ends. Does

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Anton Shepelev
Ralph Corderoy: > Hi Anton, > > > I can manage a two-part macro like .(MyPS and .)MyPS, so I could > > reset the indent upon exit. But I don't know how to do it using only > > one macro. I probably have to 'subscribe' to some 'call-back' macro > > that gets called every time a paragraph (

Re: [Groff] antiquity of troff

2010-06-02 Thread Larry Kollar
Meg McRoberts wrote: Does anyone know the history of mmx? When I started, mmx was the command we used to produce formatted ASCII text from source that used the *roff macros. I got the idea that it was an older tool which was being linked to nroff at about that time... I seem to remember rea

Re: [Groff] antiquity of troff

2010-06-02 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Larry Kollar wrote: > Meg McRoberts wrote: > > Does anyone know the history of mmx? When I started, mmx was the > > command we used to produce formatted ASCII text from source that > > used the *roff macros. I got the idea that it was an older tool > > which was being linked to nroff at about th

[Groff] Unicode's Many Spaces.

2010-06-02 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi, Clarke and I had a brief off-list conversation about having a larger space after the end of sentences, etc., in HTML. IIRC, he suggested a no-break space, ` ', followed by a normal space. The problem with this is that if it should fall at the end of an output line that has a straight right

Re: [Groff] Replacing groff with troff?

2010-06-02 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> The other big output issue I know about is the lack of support for > UTF-8. Recent versions support UTF-8, at least for `simple' languages like Latin, Russian, or Greek. Werner

[Groff] Minor improvement to MM .EOP processing

2010-06-02 Thread Larry Jones
The user-defined .EOP macro in mgm overrides the normal end of page processing, but there's no convenient way to invoke said normal processing if one merely wants to augment it rather than completely replacing it. It seems to me that it would be better to pre-define .EOP to do the normal end of pa

Re: [Groff] Minor improvement to MM .EOP processing

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Bianchi
On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 11:36:32AM -0400, Larry Jones wrote: > The user-defined .EOP macro in mgm overrides the normal end of page > processing, but there's no convenient way to invoke said normal > processing if one merely wants to augment it rather than completely > replacing it. It seems to me

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> I can manage a two-part macro like .(MyPS and .)MyPS, > so I could reset the indent upon exit. But I don't know how > to do it using only one macro. I probably have to 'subscribe' > to some 'call-back' macro that gets called every time a > paragraph (in groff's sense) ends. Does groff o

Re: [Groff] Minor improvement to MM .EOP processing

2010-06-02 Thread Larry Jones
Mike Bianchi writes: > > As I read your description, the current syntax is: > Define .EOP to change end-of-page processing. > Undefine .EOP to restore the default end-of-page processing. Good point. I hadn't considered that use case; I assumed that people who define .EOP leave it def

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Anton Shepelev
Tadziu Hoffmann: > >> I can manage a two-part macro like .(MyPS and .)MyPS, >> so I could reset the indent upon exit. But I don't know how >> to do it using only one macro. I probably have to 'subscribe' >> to some 'call-back' macro that gets called every time a >> paragraph (in groff's

Re: [Groff] Replacing groff with troff?

2010-06-02 Thread Deri James
On Wednesday 02 June 2010 03:04:47 Larry Kollar wrote: > > It runs slowly > > And that statement pretty much casts everything else you say into > question. "Runs slowly" compared to what? I haven't found any general- > purpose formatter that even comes close to groff, speed-wise, and > don't

Re: [Groff] Hanging paragraphs in MM

2010-06-02 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> Now I am prying into the implementation of the .TP macro > in MAN... Ah, yes. In the manpage macros, this works similarly: all paragraph macros reset the indent to what it "should" be (so that any ".in" invocations within a paragraph will be undone at the beginning of the next paragraph). Tha