Hi, Dave!
At 2021-08-11T20:30:07-0500, Dave Kemper wrote:
> On 8/9/21, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> >
> > \v'-.5'\s-4\&2\s0\v'.5'
> >
> > The use of \&, unnecessary here as far as I know, suggests to me that
> > someone got burned by the magic syntax of the \s escape sequence.
>
> The \& is
> .ds { \v'-.9m\s'\En[.s]*7u/10u'+.7m'
Wow. I didn't know that was possible. You're interrupting the
calculation of the amount of vertical movement to set the point
size, and then use the new value (as ems) in the interrupted
calculation...
But the result is correct, it's equivalent to
\v'
* On 2021 11 Aug 20:30 -0500, Dave Kemper wrote:
> On 8/9/21, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> >
> > \v'-.5'\s-4\&2\s0\v'.5'
> >
> > The use of \&, unnecessary here as far as I know, suggests to me that
> > someone got burned by the magic syntax of the \s escape sequence.
>
> The \& is unnecessar
On 8/9/21, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>
> \v'-.5'\s-4\&2\s0\v'.5'
>
> The use of \&, unnecessary here as far as I know, suggests to me that
> someone got burned by the magic syntax of the \s escape sequence.
The \& is unnecessary for correct machine parsing, but it surely aids
human eyes, w
At 2021-08-09T14:38:20-0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2021 09 Aug 10:05 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > It's interesting to me that the following two are not equivalent.
> >
> > foo\v'-.5'\s-4bar\s0\v'.5'
> > foo\u\s-4bar\s0\d
> >
> > Our use of the term "half-line motion" might
* On 2021 09 Aug 07:33 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Yup; as noted in my previous reply, this was a mistake on my part,
> arising from a lack of access to authentic documentation. I'll fix it.
And fixed it is in the latest HEAD. Thanks, Branden!
- Nate
--
"The optimist proclaims that
* On 2021 09 Aug 10:05 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> It's interesting to me that the following two are not equivalent.
>
> foo\v'-.5'\s-4bar\s0\v'.5'
> foo\u\s-4bar\s0\d
>
> Our use of the term "half-line motion" might require some clarification.
I see the groff.7.man file in G
While we're on the subject of footnote markers/superscripts, including the
-me macros: I have always disliked the way that that macro set added line
spacing to accommodate the footnote marker. Maybe that was necessary in
older output devices; but it looks very ugly in modern laser
printed output. I
At 2021-08-09T09:11:50-0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> So far I've not read much of the book[1] closely. I have skimmed
> through Chapter 4 and on page 4-117 (page 247 of the PDF) is a table
> of the available MM strings. Given that I've seen example dates from
> 1987/88, this list may be quite clos
At 2021-08-09T23:28:57+1000, Damian McGuckin wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Aug 2021, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>
> > There is clear evidence of tmac.s in Version 6 Unix (1975)[1].
>
> PWB Unix is 1977. But get input from someone who was around at the
> time.
I like documentary sources. Version 10 Researc
* On 2021 09 Aug 07:12 -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Hi, Nate!
Good morning, Branden.
> I took it out as part of commit 4f3b1e33[1], 13 July (just a few weeks
> ago). I was revising the material that had to do with the `ISODATE`
> macro and `Iso` register, both of which are groff extension
> My own research undertaken for updating Larry Kollar's ms.ms suggests
> that there were several revisions of Lesk's ms manual.
I was there at the time; mid-1970s.
Michael Lesk's ms came out of the Bell Labs research area where UNIX was
invented and refined. The target audience was the folk i
On Mon, 9 Aug 2021, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
There is clear evidence of tmac.s in Version 6 Unix (1975)[1].
PWB Unix is 1977. But get input from someone who was around at the time.
Why not use the preprocessor eqn(1) which means using definining the
delimiter at the start of the document w
Hi, Damian!
At 2021-08-09T21:30:08+1000, Damian McGuckin wrote:
> > What I have been able to ascertain is that MM was an evolution and
> > extension of MS by Bell Labs as both originated there.
>
> Hmmm. Not sure. I think young Doug was there when they both started
> and could enlighten us. I am
Hi, Nate!
At 2021-08-09T03:12:42-0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> What I have been able to ascertain is that MM was an evolution and
> extension of MS by Bell Labs as both originated there. Also, I think
> that either MS or MM is relatively easy to learn for anyone versed in
> MAN, though there are d
Nate,
On Mon, 9 Aug 2021, Nate Bargmann wrote:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/mac/a_ux/aux_2.0/030-0761-A_AUX_Text_Processing_Tools_1990.pdf
Thanks for that little gem. Thank you Apple.
as I was looking for a letterhead recipe. The example shown in Chapter
2 of the book worked flawlessl
First, thanks for the replies, they are instructive.
To close the loop on this thread, thanks especially to Kurt and Branden
for providing resources on MM and MS. I read through both and I was
working with MM and then started leaning toward MS until a few days ago
when I discovered this document:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 00:51:42 +1000
"G. Branden Robinson" wrote:
> This is where one of the requests you seldom need comes in. :-D
Thanks, Branden. That looks familar, so I probably read about "af" at
some point, maybe in Kernighan's Troff User Manual.
> Our groff(7) man page in Git HEAD has
Hello again, James.
Naturally I goofed my example, because I was in a hurry.
Also, since we're talking about ms now instead of mm, I've updated the
subject.
At 2021-07-21T00:51:42+1000, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > A question came up on reddit that might act as a tie-breaker for
> > you. (!)
On 20/07/2021 15:19, James K. Lowden wrote:
> [...snip...]
>
> A question came up on reddit that might act as a tie-breaker for
> you. (!) It was: how to automatically increment a list with letters?
> I don't use the style much, but if you want
>
> 1. foo
> a) bar
>
Hi, James!
At 2021-07-20T10:19:26-0400, James K. Lowden wrote:
> I find very little need to use troff requests; most everything I need
> is provided by ms. Exceptions are auto-incrementing registers for
> numbered lists, and .fzoom to shrink monospace fonts. I do find the
> quote macros in ms clu
On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:41:16 -0500
Nate Bargmann wrote:
> if I would get use out of
> either mm or ms for single page letters and some short documents
I think the answer to that question might be Yes.
I'm a tenderfoot among the troff graybeards here, having written my
first troff document in
The following is a personal opinion.
On Mon, 19 Jul 2021, Nate Bargmann wrote:
In your blog article you mention trying all the macro packages years
back and decided that mm was to your liking. I've not used any of the
macro packages except for man and wonder if I would get use out of
eithe
BTW, the preceding message was in no way intended to slight the mom
macros. I am reading the installed documentation for that package as
well. Mostly I am curious of the history of mm and ms and why it seems
two very similar macro packages emerged.
- Nate
--
"The optimist proclaims that we li
Hi Kurt and all.
In your blog article you mention trying all the macro packages years
back and decided that mm was to your liking. I've not used any of the
macro packages except for man and wonder if I would get use out of
either mm or ms for single page letters and some short documents where
the
At 2021-07-16T10:37:11-0400, T. Kurt Bond wrote:
> The paper "MM - Memorandum Macros" by D. W. Smith, J. R. Mashey, E. C.
> Pariser, and N. W. Smith, AT&T Bell Laboratories, June 1980 does not
> seem to be available in PDF or Postscript on the Internet with a
> license that allows legal copying.
I
That sounds like a very useful document! I've added a reminder to my
calendar to remind me to remind you. :)
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 5:14 PM Damian McGuckin wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021, T. Kurt Bond wrote:
>
> > I think this is useful since it provides a more "user guide" approach to
> > learn
On Fri, 16 Jul 2021, T. Kurt Bond wrote:
I think this is useful since it provides a more "user guide" approach to
learning MM; groff_mm(7), while an admirable and complete reference is
not easy to learn MM from, in my opinion.
Once I finish with the current crop of work on my plate, I will up
The paper "MM - Memorandum Macros" by D. W. Smith, J. R. Mashey, E. C.
Pariser, and N. W. Smith, AT&T Bell Laboratories, June 1980 does not seem
to be available in PDF or Postscript on the Internet with a license that
allows legal copying. However, the Documenter's Workbench version of the
documen
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