es people if I should
switch to something more professional and they said "absolutely not,
your slides look like an engineer did them" :-)
So 35 years ago that was a feature...
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 06:36:29PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2025-02-20T19:39:37+0100, onf wrote:
> > On Thu Feb 20, 2025 at 5:59 PM CET, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
> > > The idea that the argument of .so might contain unquoted spaces is
> > > anathema--contrary to groff convention and for
On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 11:46:30PM +, Neil Johnson wrote:
> With my alternative syntax:
>
> .SO[2-11] /my/source/file
> .SO[40-50] /my/source/file
> .SO[...] /my/source/file
I like this form. Though the other way you could do it is
.SO /my/source/file\ with\
On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 07:39:09PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-11-19T01:47:33+0100, onf wrote:
> > On Tue Nov 19, 2024 at 12:37 AM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > At 2024-11-18T21:43:24+0100, onf wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > Just a small nitpick, but you should probably do s/(
ar(7), but it only seems to have "???\[cu] u222A
> union, cup +"
>
>
> Yours truly,
> William
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
>2. A PDF of my revised reconstruction.
> >3. Revised mm document source corresponding to #2.
> >4. A diff of changes to #3 since the first draft I sent on Monday.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Branden
> --
>
> Dr. Oliver Corff
> Wittelsbacherstr. 5
> Branden
What's going with you two? I care about groff, been a nroff/troff/groff
user since 1982.
an anyone enlighten me about the fuss between these two? I probably
can't help but I could moderate if that is helpful, I dunno.
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
tional text or a macro
> >definition or whatnot.
> >
> >I recently ran into this before noticing that groff???s -I option
> >implies -s while trying OpenBSD???s remnant -mdoc (in
> >/usr/src/share/tmac/mdoc).?? Unlike Groff???s -mdoc, OpenBSD???s -mdoc does
> >not i
> > the roff language does not have a formal grammar
>
> Not true, unless by "formal" you mean "expressed as BNF". The parser
> reads input and produces output. Input not conforming to its syntax is
> rejected. That couldn't be true without a grammar to compare it to.
Gonna have to go with
5/12/23 12:44, Larry McVoy wrote:
> >Here's the intro at the top of the -ms doc:
> >
>
> It may be worth noting that you do not need to use the ms macro package or
> any macro package at all (apart from the built-in macros, of course).
>
> I usually create a
On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 01:28:56AM +, Mike wrote:
> > Almost all my exams (being a science teacher) are created using
> Groff.
>
> That sounds really interesting. If it isn't confidential, I'd love to
> see a copy of your exam paper to see how it was made and how you create
> two versions in t
On Fri, Apr 07, 2023 at 06:06:39PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 09:43:19 -0500
> > From: "G. Branden Robinson"
> > Cc: alx.manpa...@gmail.com, d...@gouders.net, cjwat...@debian.org,
> > linux-...@vger.kernel.org, help-texi...@gnu.org, groff@gnu.org
> >
> > ...which br
.
I'm a source management guy that has fast-export and fast-import
and I'm pretty sure there is no way to get what you want.
I'll be impressed if Eric proves me wrong.
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
On Mon, Dec 05, 2022 at 11:39:37PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> See the strncat(3) Linux manual page for details about why strncat(3)
> is actively harmful.
Is there a a known instance of strncpy() causing a problem in the groff
source?
I get it, you are fixing a possible problem and there m
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 10:25:35PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> On 11/13/22 22:20, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> >See for example some (part of a) change that I did for optimizing some
> >code, where I transformed pointers to char to char arrays (following
> >Ulrich Drepper's article about librar
27; '\0'
>
> That's it.
>
> - The string literal is reliably terminating by a NUL.
> - It is not context dependent whether a string literal has a terminating
> NUL.
> - It is absolutely reliable and clearly stated in the C standard and in
> any other C reference worth its salt.
> - There is no need to ???carry a long enough list of exceptional cases for
> the syntax in your head???.
> - An ???everyday C programmer??? will know this simple behaviour by dint of
> being a C programmer who writes it every day; there is no landmine
> upon which to step. :-)
>
> Hope that helps clear up this corner of C.
>
> --
> Cheers, Ralph.
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 12:31:51PM +1000, Damian McGuckin wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2022, Larry McVoy wrote:
>
> >I emailed ra...@inputplus.co.uk who owns troff.org to see if he wanted
> >to host papers. troff.org looks pretty dead so we shall see. If he is
> >still ther
mples. It's been established that I have
a weird brain (I "see" the picture from the pic source, I talked with my
wife who was a tech writer for a while, she said I was weird) and my weird
brain learns a lot from examples. I'm probably not the only one.
--
---
Larry McVoy
022, Larry McVoy wrote:
>
> >I'm a big fan of sharing sources to papers done in troff. I've learned
> >a lot from reading those.
>
> Do we just send them as attachments and let some poor bunny collate them? I
> do not want to overburden somebody limke Branden. Ho
.
> Would you like to elaborate on what macrosets you used?
> Would it be a nice idea to make a dummy article with some equations and
> reference
> so others can use that as a template?
> >
> > Robert Marks
> > --
> > https://www.agsm.edu.au/bobm <http://www.agsm
On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 06:27:58PM -0500, Dave Kemper wrote:
> On 7/24/22, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > I don't use the texinfo manual because it
> > is very emacs-like and I'm a vi person.
>
> A trick I learned on this list a while back is that you can read the
> i
On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 08:42:32PM +, DJ Chase wrote:
> On Sun Jul 24, 2022 at 4:18 PM EDT, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > Am I the only person who thinks that have *roff documentation in a different
> > markup is crazy?
> >
> > I wrote a couple source management systems,
On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 11:11:10AM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2022-07-24T15:45:46+, DJ Chase wrote:
> > On Sun Jul 24, 2022 at 8:06 AM EDT, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > At 2022-07-24T03:17:44+, DJ Chase wrote:
> > > > I???ve never read the Texinfo manual; I learned *roff thr
On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 08:07:22PM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2022-07-24T10:08:59+1000, Alexis wrote:
> > Just came across this, thought people here might appreciate it:
> >
> > "Quality was not the only way in which groff surprised me: it has
> > serious speed too, especially in compa
ARN -
> Computer-Aided Instruction on UNIX???.
>
> >
> >Regards,
> >Branden
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alex
>
> --
> Alejandro Colomar
> <http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
--
---
Larry McVoyRetired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
On Fri, Jul 01, 2022 at 09:37:16PM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Thanks to some feedback in private email from Deri James, I'm pleased to
> make available a PDF version of the re-typeset "Typesetting Mathematics
> - User's Guide (Second Edition)" by Kernighan and Cherry.
>
> Some upsides of
point macros end, measure, and
> start diversions, invoking an overflow
> macro as necessary.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
ptable (as long as I can draw a
> > pie chart with roff and not with an external tool).
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Have a good day
>
> I did some work on producing "business graphs" (including pie charts). If the
> attached pdf is the sort of thing you want, y
On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 04:53:39PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> You seem to say "Pick *any* specific program, use the full feature
> set of one particular version of that specific program, and add a
> hard dependency on that specific version of that specific program."
No, I didn't say that, I sai
Hi Ingo,
First of all, I mean no disrespect to you personally, I've enjoyed your
posts to this list.
On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 05:31:57AM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 06:26:14AM +1100, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> >> At 2022-03-28T12:11:32-070
On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 06:26:14AM +1100, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>
> At 2022-03-28T12:11:32-0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > > Yes, i admit there is some fragility in OpenBSD make in this respect.
> >
> > I'm a little late, are you
> > Yes, i admit there is some fragility in OpenBSD make in this respect.
I'm a little late, are you guys trying to make things build with different
make(1) implementations? Because that is the path to heartache.
Just pick one, we picked GNU make, not my favorite by any stretch but
it runs every
On Sun, Feb 13, 2022 at 09:28:02PM -0500, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
> (As a matter of programming style, I prefer to use 0 to specify a null
> pointer; it doesn't require one to haul in stddef.h as NULL does. And
> it doesn't shout.)
Amen.
On Tue, Nov 02, 2021 at 07:20:03AM +, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>
> >> You absolutely _did_ rewrite history ... not just once, but twice!
> >> You deleted an _entire branch_ of published development history,
> >> then after my subsequent push had reinstated it, you deleted it
> >> once again! If
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 07:12:37PM -0400, Steve Izma wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 07:53:13PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> > Subject: Re: SEE ALSO fails
> >
> > James K. Lowden wrote on Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 12:08:03PM -0400:
> >
> > > A longstanding complaint of mine regarding Linux man pages
ool wouldn't require the
> > packager (person or software) to know anthing about mdoc or man or
> > groff. It would just list the pages being added/deleted, and the tool
> > would rummage around updating SEE ALSO accordingly, perhaps aided by an
> > index.
> >
> > Surely I'm not the first to think of this. Does anyone here have a war
> > story of any similar attempt?
> >
> > --jkl
> >
> >
>
> --
> T. Kurt Bond, tkurtb...@gmail.com, https://tkurtbond.github.io
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 05:19:00AM +1100, John Gardner wrote:
> I was thinking of ms(7) more than manual pages, actually. Think single-page
> HTML output.
-ms lends itself to parsing nicely. I wrote something called webroff
(in perl) that took ms input and spit out a website. In the early
days o
On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 05:19:56PM -0700, Dale Snell wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:38 PM Peter Schaffter wrote:
>
> > Is there a correct pronunciation of groff? I've been
> > checking out YouTube videos on groff. The uploaders
> > all say "groff" (one syllable, like "gruff"). I say
> > "g
On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 11:58:55AM +1100, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > +1 except in extraordinary circumstances.
>
> Since I am now accused four times over of rewriting history, and
> moreover of violating an "absolute taboo", I must insist upon the
> presentation of particulars.
Hi, I'm the Bi
On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 08:35:44PM +0100, Keith Marshall wrote:
> What you describe may be a manifest *effect* of the problem; the *real*
> problem is that, contrary to established wisdom, you've abused git's
> ability to rewrite history, within a public repository ??? that should be
> an absolute
On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 08:42:02AM -0400, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
> > Rename "an-old.tmac" to simply "an.tmac"
> > ...
> > permitting the "an" package to reclaim its proper name among
> > the macro package file names.
>
> As a grizzled user, I heartily endorse restoring -man to its original
> beh
t; looking at the code, it looks like pg@end-text calls pg@super-eject to
> flush keeps & footnotes. Perhaps, in the documentation, that we recommend
> using .am to add any further boilerplate content to EM/page@end-text to
> prevent unintended issues.
>
> ??? Larry
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:02:43PM -0600, Anthony J. Bentley wrote:
> By the way, Vim's infinite undo clearly violates the published
> standard (POSIX is clear that u undoes u)
I'm pretty sure there is a variable you can set to get vim to conform
with the standard. That said, I consider vim to be
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 04:30:10PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Larry Kollar wrote on Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 09:33:02AM -0400:
>
> > I've not used another editor where you can pipe chunks of
> > text *ad hoc* through scripts or even awk/perl one-liners.
>
> That doesn't require vim(1) at
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 09:33:02AM -0400, Larry Kollar wrote:
>
> Marc Chantreux wrote:
> >
> > hello,
> >
> >> - Update Chapter 3 to cover Vim (including gvim)
> >
> > please don't!
> >
> > what's nice about reading UTP is to discover the elegance and simplicity
> > of it all ???
> >
> > i
itself, seem to have no canonical, "all-encontained"
> > documentation. All seems to derive from .. ?
> >
> >
> > So my question is:
> >
> > * What would be a good starting point (tutorial) into troff and its core
> > principles?
> >
> &
9692-9623 | unsolicited email not wanted here
> Views & opinions here are mine and not those of any past or present employer
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
> -. if 0\\$1>0 .nr sh*psincr (\\n[GROWPS]-0\\$1)*\\n[PSINCR]
> +. if 0\\$1>0 \{\
> +.nr sh*psincr (\\n[GROWPS]-0\\$1)*\\n[PSINCR]
> +.\}
> . SH-NO-TAG
> . DEVTAG-SH 1
> . if '\*(.T'html' .nr need_eo_h 1
> @@ -1498,6 +1500,8 @@
onts/ghostscript/n021004l.pfb
> Times-BoldItalic/usr/share/fonts/ghostscript/n021024l.pfb
>
>
>
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
at the precise message?
>
> > That file is there at http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/porting-broken.pdf
>
> I've run that through ps2pdf, mutool's clean, qpdf's --check, and all
> are happy. gs, mupdf, and gv all display it without complaint.
>
>
ing wrong with "porting-broken.pdf".
>
> Maybe firefox's PDF renderer does not come with the base 13
> fonts (that every PDF renderer should have), and therefore
> cannot display the file?
>
>
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
Hi,
I recently got a copy of John Gilmore's paper:
http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/porting-berkeley.ms
and if I do
groff -ms -Tpdf porting-berkeley.ms > porting-broken.pdf
the pdf is not readable by firefox. I get the popup that says
"This PDF might not be displayed properly".
That file is there
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 06:42:37PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Could we please just converge on this spec? I'm old and tired but
> if we can get agreement on this and noone wants to do the code I'll
> take a swing at it.
I could probably be talked into trying to convert th
ding
was (barely) plausible for the original C/A/T phototypesetter,
which could not produce sizes greater than 36.
- End forwarded message -
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
e of the culprit,
> > in this case the s-escape (\s).
> > Solution: Provide the name ("\\s escape" is already used once in the
> > subroutine).
> > b) Adding details of the argument of the escape in messages is not
> > necessary.
> > c) Adding specific code to report specific syntax errors is not
> > necessary.
>
> snip
>
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 06:17:52PM +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Branden,
>
> > Support 2-digit \sNN only in compatibility mode.
>
> No, again.
>
> This is not acceptable. My muscles know to write \s14foo\s0 bar and
> don't like changing, my eyes know how to read it. I don't see why you
>
p.
>
> Let's face it: the beauty of the man page format is its straightforwardness
> and simplicity. Neither of which the Info system has.
>
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 at 13:52, Larry McVoy wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:21:43AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:21:43AM +0100, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>
> > And at this point, the man(7) language is better maintained and
> > appears to have more of a future than texinfo, which has been a lame
> > duck now for at least half a decade, probably longer:
> >
>
> Uh, oh, no idea why you
> > +++ b/contrib/mom/momdoc/color.html
> > @@ -121,7 +121,7 @@ see
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > -Mom’s colour support is for text only. She doesn’t
> > +Mom’s colour support is for text only. It doesn’t
> > support “fill” (or “background”) colour for
On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 01:21:47PM -0500, Mike Bianchi wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 12:45:22PM -0500, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> > > C is one of the worst possible foundation languages conceivable for
> > > automated formal verification
> >
> > Yet the Mars rovers run on a wholly checked code base
.
> >
> > > FWIW, I run these tests as part of the Debian package build and enforce
> > > that they pass. This is obviously only of limited use since it's only
> > > after releases, but it's better than nothing. (I would hope that
> > > maintainers al
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 11:17:26PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> if (*form == '%') {
> form++;
> result += '%';
> }
> else {
> ...
> snprintf(sprintf_buf, sizeof(sprintf_buf),
> one_format.contents(), v[i++]);
> result += sprintf_buf;
> }
> one_format.clear
.
>
>
> Werner
Um, I fail to see why any license has to be GPL anything, the docs are not
part of the groff source.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
found at http://home.windstream.net/kollar/utp/ (my
> website).
>
> Hope that gets you started.
>
> Larry
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
> the groff extensions.
Yeah, that would make a lot more sense.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
Hi folks,
We, er, I, use groff to create multiple documents from one. Here's our
header (search for === to skip this):
.ig
** README FIRST **
Notes for people unfamiliar with this file format:
Line breaks are very important, if you work on this work on it with an
edito
ear opinions.
As a long time roff user I can state that groff is better. And the
BSD guys prolly have no reason to complain, does FSF own groff or
is it James?
Either way, groff is enough better that I wouldn't look back.
With props to Joe for a fine tool.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
Thanks. I really wanted to avoid the .TH first so I ended up modifying
an-old.tmac and just using that. But your way is nice and taught me
why .nop exists.
One problem that is making me scratch my head is that running a number of
man pages through groff -Tascii is doing some sort of vertical sp
- groff is certainly coming along nicely, it's been a while since I've
lived in macro packages and you've added some nifty features. Thanks.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
__
EE_ALSO=\\*[SEE_ALSO]
\\*[SEE_ALSO]
. ds SEE_ALSO
. \}
. ORIGINAL_SH
..
.de SA
. tm SEE_ALSO \\$1
. as SEE_ALSO \\$1
. as SEE_ALSO ,
..
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http
t; for pie-graphs), it seems to me that a wiki for groff would be very
> useful.
Agreed.
--
---
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___
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for years to kill man pages (with little
success) by ignoring them. I'm not proposing that texinfo get ignored,
I'm suggesting that there is at least one person out here (me) who would
do some real work on roff's docs if the format was roff. From what I
can tell, I'm not alone.
--
because there are very, very, very few of those people.
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---
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On Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 09:10:39AM +1000, Miklos Somogyi wrote:
>
> On 22/10/2005, at 6:00 AM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> >
> >I'm not sure how you are going to get more roff users when the first
> >thing
> >they see is the project not using its own product. A
ivalent to the `info' program for groff input since
> no good groff2texi converter exists.
I'm not sure how you are going to get more roff users when the first thing
they see is the project not using its own product. A documentation tool
where the documentation for it is
easons.
I know you've told me before but it must not have been a very satisfying
answer since I can't remember. What are the reasons? It would seem like
we could fine enough groff hackers to redo the docs in roff.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com
and patches!) to improve this are highly welcome.
I'd be happy to submit patches once it's converted to roff but I just
can't bring myself to submit documentation fixes to roff docs written
in texinfo. Something about eating your own dogfood.
--
---
Larry McVoy
. So you can ask for a paragraph
or a list or whatever and it puts the markup in the text.
Combine that with a split screen, rendered output at the top, source at
the bottom and you're 95% of the way there.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
hey
write man pages.
--
---
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___
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tnote
> diversions and other types of keep.
Can a diversion be spit out and fed to another one? I understand the
current issues being discussed and agree they are issues. But I also
understand that roff doesn't do widow/orphan processing and the obvious
(?) way to do that would be with diver
> Sometimes I wish for an '-o file' option to groff and friends, with
Be careful about that, using it means that anywhere you don't have that
version of groff installed your makefile will break.
--
---
Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http:/
t;< /PageSize [" + str(new_maxx + 10) + " " +
> str(new_maxy + 10) + "] >> setpagedevice"
> print "gsave -" + str(minx) + " -" + str(miny - 1) + " translate"
> else:
> print line,
>
> print "grestore"
>
> And finally, the best news is that this takes just 1 second to run!
>
>
>
> ___
> Groff mailing list
> Groff@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/groff
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like this and
b) you are local to, or willing to move to, silicon valley
then let me know.
Thanks!
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 10:47:43PM +0200, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed Mar 30 21:01:52 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Wednesday 30 March 2005 7:49 pm, Otavio Exel wrote:
> > > Otavio Exel wrote:
> > > > How do I get groff to split but don't join?
> > >
> > > being a software developer myself
quot;price of entry, cost of ownership".
Yeah, like I said, FUD. I don't mind people who have legit problems with
BK or anything else. But saying "it's the wrong answer" and replying to
"why" with "that's a discussion for another day. An
can tell this is just
FUD.
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Larry McVoylm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
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ersion are better technical choices.
We've made an open source client available so even the religious arguments
are moot.
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ce...
>
> No, and no. Larry McVoy has offered Bitkeeper, and I'm going to take him
> up on it once I take the time to sit down and get familiar with it.
For what it is worth we've recently added an open source BK client so that
people can get at the source easily and not need to agre
guy. I'd like to see a
new release of the docs: *roff reference & user guide, pic/tbl/eqn/etc,
macro packages, etc.
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h
ling the doc's but I am unclear so far, and I thought I would
> ask before
> reading the source.
>
> / thanks, Lars segerlund.
>
>
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into the original
docs all of the old and new groff extensions. I think groff is much
under appreciated.
Another thing I'd like to see is widows/orphans processing, it is so annoying
to have to do that by hand.
Any interest out there?
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