Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, September 1, 2019 12:14 PM, Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote: > Stefan Claas wrote: > > > Am Mon, 6 May 2019 08:53:14 -0400 > > schrieb Jeff Allen jral...@runbox.com: > > > > > People who don't trust ProtonMail shouldn't use it. > > > > Absolutely! B

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 2019-09-01 15:18, Peter Lebbing wrote: Hi Peter, > Hello Stefan, > > On 01/09/2019 14:14, Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote: >> Also interesting. >> >> https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf > > If you post URL's to this mailing list, could you please provide a short > description of what can

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Hello Stefan, On 01/09/2019 14:14, Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users wrote: > Also interesting. > > https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf If you post URL's to this mailing list, could you please provide a short description of what can be found at the URL? This prevents the situation that people shoul

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Stefan Claas wrote: > Am Mon, 6 May 2019 08:53:14 -0400 > schrieb Jeff Allen : > > > > People who don't trust ProtonMail shouldn't use it. > > Absolutely! But I think it does not hurt to post > such things to educate PGP users how different > services or software applications etc. handle such

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Stefan Claas wrote: > I visited the Quicksilver site a couple of days ago and it was > working. > > I may ping Richard to let him know that it is not working. O.k. his site is up and running, but his LE cert is expired. Regards Stefan ___ Gnupg-users

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Stefan Claas wrote: > Hope this helps! And you probably want an up to date allpingers.txt: # A L L P I N G E R S' I N D E X # # Updated: 09 June 2019 # This list was last updated by SEC3 # Please email corrections to: pinger-ad...@sec3.net [apricot] base= https://apricot.fruiti.org

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Mirimir wrote: > Thanks. Any chance of a native Linux port of Quicksilver? I asked, > some years ago, and got that it wasn't feasible. You're welcome! What I would do under Linux, wishing to run Mixmaster (latest Version with 4k keys support) and using a Nym: Check the docs here, they are for R

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/09/2019 01:20 AM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Mirimir wrote: > >> Some years ago, I got Quicksilver Lite working in Debian with Wine. >> But even then, it hadn't been updated for years. And now I find that >> https://www.quicksilvermail.net isn't loading. Are people still using >> nymservers with

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Mirimir wrote: > And do you have working onion URLs for > nymservers and news servers? Here we go, it is from a.p.a-s: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Here are the free Onion SMTP Servers that I am aware of that are working as of April 29, 2019 gbhpq7eihle4btsn.onion:25 sopoccfrk

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Kirill Peskov wrote: > First of all... > > On 05.05.19 12:12, Stefan Claas wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > appologies for posting this, but I think it could > > be of interest for GnuPG users, because ProtoMail > > uses the OpenPGP protocol too. > > It uses OpenPGP protocol, but quite a twisted way.

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Hi Kirill, On 09.06.2019 08:57, Kirill Peskov wrote: It uses OpenPGP protocol, but quite a twisted way. And they're not OpenPGP-compliant, because they're not able to encrypt mails leaving their domain. What do you mean by that? There is an option to add OpenPGP key of a "foreign" contact and

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

First of all... On 05.05.19 12:12, Stefan Claas wrote: > Hi all, > > appologies for posting this, but I think it could > be of interest for GnuPG users, because ProtoMail > uses the OpenPGP protocol too. It uses OpenPGP protocol, but quite a twisted way. And they're not OpenPGP-compliant, because

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Mirimir wrote: > Some years ago, I got Quicksilver Lite working in Debian with Wine. > But even then, it hadn't been updated for years. And now I find that > https://www.quicksilvermail.net isn't loading. Are people still using > nymservers with mixmaster? And do you have working onion URLs for >

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/08/2019 01:25 AM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Christopher W. Richardson wrote: > >> >> >>> On 9 May 2019, at 22:34, Stefan Claas wrote: >>> >>> Am Wed, 8 May 2019 22:08:22 +0200 >>> schrieb Christopher W. Richardson : >>> > On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas >

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Christopher W. Richardson wrote: > > > > On 9 May 2019, at 22:34, Stefan Claas wrote: > > > > Am Wed, 8 May 2019 22:08:22 +0200 > > schrieb Christopher W. Richardson : > > > >>> On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> ProtonMail's procedure is

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am 09.05.2019 um 16:44 schrieb Stefan Claas: > implement for future generations of GnuPG users message padding > and and stealth mode, we had in PGP, back in the mid 90's, so > that procmail and Co. have it more difficult to filter PGP messages. Maybe an interesting read. https://web.archive

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

> On 9 May 2019, at 22:34, Stefan Claas wrote: > > Am Wed, 8 May 2019 22:08:22 +0200 > schrieb Christopher W. Richardson : > >>> On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas >> > wrote: >>> >>> ProtonMail's procedure is not anonymous like >>> real anonymous email services >

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 05/09/2019 01:03 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Am Thu, 9 May 2019 15:28:36 -0400 > schrieb Tony Lane : > >> Uhh... no. >> You can absolutely hide the recipient with the '-R' option in Gnupg. >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > > Sorry for my bad wording! I was refering to the email recipient, wh

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Thu, 9 May 2019 15:28:36 -0400 schrieb Tony Lane : > Uhh... no. > You can absolutely hide the recipient with the '-R' option in Gnupg. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Sorry for my bad wording! I was refering to the email recipient, when using a standard MUA which sends to a regular single ema

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 5/9/19 10:44 AM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Am Wed, 8 May 2019 18:41:13 -0400 > schrieb Tony Lane : > >> Isn't the whole point of GPG to hide the content or who it's intended >> to? > > Well, yes to hide the content, that is true, but the recipient

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Wed, 8 May 2019 18:41:13 -0400 schrieb Tony Lane : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Isn't the whole point of GPG to hide the content or who it's intended > to? Well, yes to hide the content, that is true, but the recipient is known and GnuPG produces the encrypted and armored content in

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Wed, 8 May 2019 22:08:22 +0200 schrieb Christopher W. Richardson : > > On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas > > wrote: > > > > ProtonMail's procedure is not anonymous like > > real anonymous email services > > What are some such “real” anonymous email services? Sc

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Protonmail is anonymous† if used correctly and if you trust them.  Any user worried about text messages being tied to them could use cash at a place far from where they live with no cameras to buy a burner phone for a one time text message code if they are really that paranoid.  If Protonmail d

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 05/08/2019 03:41 PM, Tony Lane wrote: > Or you could just use qmail+GPG with the -R option. Seriously, you're recommending that people run their own mail servers? > Or heck, just post it the clearnet on some *chan. Isn't the whole point of > GPG to hide the content or who it's intended to? >

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Or you could just use qmail+GPG with the -R option. Or heck, just post it the clearnet on some *chan. Isn't the whole point of GPG to hide the content or who it's intended to? GPG is perfect for this imo -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iLkEARMKAB0WIQ

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 05/08/2019 01:08 PM, Christopher W. Richardson wrote: > > >> On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas > > wrote: >> >> ProtonMail's procedure is not anonymous like >> real anonymous email services > > What are some such “real” anonymous email services? Any service that's

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

> On 6 May 2019, at 16:15, Stefan Claas > wrote: > > ProtonMail's procedure is not anonymous like > real anonymous email services What are some such “real” anonymous email services?___ Gnupg-users mailing list Gnupg-users@gnup

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Wed, 8 May 2019 00:19:26 +0100 schrieb MFPA <2017-r3sgs86x8e-lists-gro...@riseup.net>: > The “fbclid” parameter looks like a Facebook click identifier. It's a > tracking ploy added to external URLs from the Facebook site, similar > to Google's “gclid”. That's correct, the fbclid parameter is f

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi On Monday 6 May 2019 at 10:19:35 AM, in , Peter Lebbing wrote:- > If this is a referral link, I would consider that > *extremely* bad form > of you. The “fbclid” parameter looks like a Facebook click identifier. It's a tracking ploy added to

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 18:55:50 +0100 schrieb Mark Rousell : > (a) It's not a crime to run a proxy in the UK or EU[1]. It's just that > there are metadata logging and log-retention requirements if you do > so. (Once again, I apologise because I've lost my notes on all the EU > and UK legislation that

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 17:07, Stefan Claas wrote: > Thanks for pointing that out! O.k. I do not want to get to off-topic > here but it interests me what would happen if I use a US based server > and a US domain with whois guard? Would ProtonMail really hunt down > a proxy server operator, or let's say other

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 16:27, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 11:17 AM Mark Rousell wrote: >> Check your local laws first. I am pretty sure that doing that (specifically >> the no logs bit) in the UK would now be a criminal offence. ;-) This is the >> same as many other EU countries due

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 16:39, Stefan Claas wrote: > Maybe I should set-up squid on a VPS and let people register from there, > while keeping no log files. :-D The only purpose of that would be to specifically subvert the intentions and processes of ProtonMail. They have designed a system which chooses poli

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 06:52:10 +0200 schrieb Stefan Claas : > Am Sun, 5 May 2019 17:16:12 -0700 > schrieb Mirimir : > > > Well of course that's not anonymous! > > > > So what you do, if you want ~anonymity, is to use their Tor onion > > site. That doesn't ask for anything beyond an email address.

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 16:17:01 +0100 schrieb Mark Rousell : > On 06/05/2019 15:39, Stefan Claas wrote: > > Maybe I should set-up squid on a VPS and let people register from > > there, while keeping no log files. :-D > > Check your local laws first. I am pretty sure that doing that > (specifically

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 11:17 AM Mark Rousell wrote: > > On 06/05/2019 15:39, Stefan Claas wrote: > > Maybe I should set-up squid on a VPS and let people register from there, > while keeping no log files. :-D > > > Check your local laws first. I am pretty sure that doing that (specifically > the n

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 15:39, Stefan Claas wrote: > Maybe I should set-up squid on a VPS and let people register from there, > while keeping no log files. :-D Check your local laws first. I am pretty sure that doing that (specifically the no logs bit) in the UK would now be a criminal offence. ;-) This is

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 07:26:50 +0200 schrieb Matthias Apitz : > Well, I'm asking myself: What has all this thread to do with GnuPG? I think it is a good idea to post GnuPG related things here on the ML when it comes also to things or services etc. using the Openpgp protocol, so that users are aware

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 06:17:42 -0400 schrieb Mauricio Tavares : > Another option is to buy a burner phone and SIM paying cash. > I've seen both available in stores and supermarkets and street stands > in at least 3 countries. While I am not using regular proxy servers, I figured out this morn

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Mon, 6 May 2019 08:53:14 -0400 schrieb Jeff Allen : > People who don't trust ProtonMail shouldn't use it. Absolutely! But I think it does not hurt to post such things to educate PGP users how different services or software applications etc. handle such privacy related things, especially whe

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 10:19, Peter Lebbing wrote: > Hello Stephan, > > Something completely different. > > What is that link with the binary data in your OP? > > I did not click it because I don't know what binary data I'd be handing > to that site. But I see this text on the front page of that site: > I

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 12:21, Andrew Luke Nesbit wrote: > [I am resending from my list-subscribed email address.] > > On 06/05/2019 11:17, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > >> Another option is to buy a burner phone and SIM paying cash. >> I've seen both available in stores and supermarkets and street stands

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 06/05/2019 14:53, Jeff Allen wrote: > It would be more trivial not to hash the number and say you did. I think it's a worthwhile thing to point out that they state "because hash functions are one-way functions, it is impossible to derive your phone number [...]" without reservations, but that t

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 07:21, Mon, May 6, 2019 Andrew Luke Nesbit > [I am resending from my list-subscribed email address.] > > On 06/05/2019 11:17, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > > > Another option is to buy a burner phone and SIM paying cash. > > I've seen both available in stores and supermarkets and street stand

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 5/5/19 4:20 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > Don't you think that brute-forcing a hash of a phone number would be > trivial? > It would be more trivial not to hash the number and say you did. ProtonMail claims they hash the number and store it unlinked to your account. Their stated objective is t

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

[I am resending from my list-subscribed email address.] On 06/05/2019 11:17, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > Another option is to buy a burner phone and SIM paying cash. > I've seen both available in stores and supermarkets and street stands > in at least 3 countries. In which countries is this

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 1:08 AM Mirimir wrote: > > On 05/05/2019 09:52 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > > Am Sun, 5 May 2019 17:16:12 -0700 > > schrieb Mirimir : > > > >> Well of course that's not anonymous! > >> > >> So what you do, if you want ~anonymity, is to use their Tor onion > >> site. That doesn'

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Hello Stephan, Something completely different. What is that link with the binary data in your OP? I did not click it because I don't know what binary data I'd be handing to that site. But I see this text on the front page of that site: > You can also earn FREE TELE TOKENS from our bounty or air

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

El día lunes, mayo 06, 2019 a las 07:15:06a. m. +0200, Stefan Claas escribió: > > > https://protonmail.com/ > > > > > > > I suppose like anything else it all comes down to whether you believe > > them or not. I do. > > [snip] > > Well, I just asked myself ... > > What is the purpose behind

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On Sun, 05 May 2019 22:20:58 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sun, 2019-05-05 at 14:32 -0400, Jeff Allen wrote: > Don't you think that brute-forcing a hash of a phone number would be > trivial? > > -- > Best regards, > Michał Górny > > > > ___ > Gnupg-use

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Sun, 5 May 2019 22:07:57 -0700 schrieb Mirimir : > Of course not. But you can lease a SIM from https://speedyverify.com/, > and pay in mixed Bitcoin, all via Tor. They use real SIMs, hosted in > the Philippines. Thanks a lot for this valuable privacy tip, much appreciated! Regards Stefan __

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Sun, 5 May 2019 14:32:20 -0400 schrieb Jeff Allen : > On 5/5/19 1:36 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > > On Sun, 5 May 2019 11:22:56 -0400 > > Tony Lane wrote: > > > >> Isn't it obvious? > > > > I don't think so! Users new to privacy related > > services may think when visiting the ProtonMail >

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 05/05/2019 09:52 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Am Sun, 5 May 2019 17:16:12 -0700 > schrieb Mirimir : > >> Well of course that's not anonymous! >> >> So what you do, if you want ~anonymity, is to use their Tor onion >> site. That doesn't ask for anything beyond an email address. > > > Assuming tha

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Am Sun, 5 May 2019 17:16:12 -0700 schrieb Mirimir : > Well of course that's not anonymous! > > So what you do, if you want ~anonymity, is to use their Tor onion > site. That doesn't ask for anything beyond an email address. Assuming that this is their real .onion address, I just tried that. h

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 05/05/2019 03:12 AM, Stefan Claas wrote: > Hi all, > > appologies for posting this, but I think it could > be of interest for GnuPG users, because ProtoMail > uses the OpenPGP protocol too. > > Some of you may have signed up with ProtonMail and > enjoy the service, due to it's ease of use and

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On Sun, 2019-05-05 at 14:32 -0400, Jeff Allen wrote: > On 5/5/19 1:36 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > > On Sun, 5 May 2019 11:22:56 -0400 > > Tony Lane wrote: > > > > > Isn't it obvious? > > > > I don't think so! Users new to privacy related > > services may think when visiting the ProtonMail > > site

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On 5/5/19 1:36 PM, Stefan Claas wrote: > On Sun, 5 May 2019 11:22:56 -0400 > Tony Lane wrote: > >> Isn't it obvious? > > I don't think so! Users new to privacy related > services may think when visiting the ProtonMail > site that they are anonymous, when seeing their > main page: > > https://pr

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

On Sun, 5 May 2019 11:22:56 -0400 Tony Lane wrote: > Isn't it obvious? I don't think so! Users new to privacy related services may think when visiting the ProtonMail site that they are anonymous, when seeing their main page: https://protonmail.com/ Regards Stefan _

Re: ProtonMail and Anonymity

Isn't it obvious? If ProtonMail is forcing you to sign up and use an SMS registered to your cellphone then clearly it's in their interest to collect cellphone numbers. They're probably selling this information just like facebook and so many other data-mining corporations. After all, they have to

ProtonMail and Anonymity

Hi all, appologies for posting this, but I think it could be of interest for GnuPG users, because ProtoMail uses the OpenPGP protocol too. Some of you may have signed up with ProtonMail and enjoy the service, due to it's ease of use and they think they are anonymous, when using this service. At