ase jump in with your views. That would be very
valuable to this discussion. Thread starts at:
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2007-August/msg00027.html)
Henrik
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ouse enhancements. These tools
will interact with their environment via dbus wherever possible.
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rence is there is no real reward from that
kind of effort.
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an add-on later.
Conferences like Guadec, Akademy, UDS and LR Live are great for that.
You can stop the cutting edge developers in the hall and just ask them
if they have thought of the access issues. You then get to do a 10
minute presentation on what that means :)
Henrik
_
ith
> truckloads of
> examples.
Dive into python is quite good:
http://www.diveintopython.org/toc/index.html
Though it may not be primarily intended for first-time programmers, it
does have lots of examples.
> Also are there good tools to aid in syntax writing and such?
Gedit has python syntax highlighti
ning, but
your widgets will work as normal without it. AT-SPI is generally only
run by those who need assistive technology or people doing testing, and
is turned on explicitly.
Are you doing this to provide access or some general-use automation?
Henrik
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ddenly disappear.
Making the new control centre accessible should not be that hard. Who
can we contact about it?
Henrik
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by
category first, then alphabetically (is that a problem? the selection
could skip through categories).
Henrik
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Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
> Kenny Hitt wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I haven't figured out a way to run gnome-terminal under gdb with speech.
>> Since all terminals close during the crash, I can't use gnome-terminal.
>> If I use xterm to run gdb, I don
a stack trace would be apreciated.
>
Install the KDE shell konsole and espeak
run a copy of konsole from Alt-f2 then:
gdb gnome-terminal | espeak
or similar. It produces speech output, but I'm not sure if it's
practical to use.
Henrik
_
ser name." would be relatively simple to
implement (though the login sound almost serves the same purpose).
Henrik
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op Linux. It
should not be our working plan to settle for that second-rate solution.
Henrik
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g in AT-SPI could either be killed or left
> running.
>
But then what about public terminals at an internet cafe or university?
Think the idea of having a listener deamon, as Peter says, which would
then load the rest is the most general solution
Henrik
__
Peter Korn wrote:
> Hi Henrik,
>
> Login is a somewhat unique environment; it is reasonable to explore
> the question of whether one can get by without AT and AT-SPI.
>
> Unfortunately, I think the answer is "it depends upon the disability
> need", which ends up b
not be the right way to go but I think we should consider it
before starting work on fixing the current model.
Henrik
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ly feature. These are just sketches and I don't have any
volunteers to code it yet (and I don't have the needed skills myself).
Henrik
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. Not a disaster, but not great.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but there should probably be a way of
turning AT-SPI on separately. If one of the apps that needs it is set to
autostart the AT-SPI checkbox could be on and unchangeable. So we are
back to the Advanced setting button :)
I've ma
Bill Haneman wrote:
> Hi Henrik:
>
> Thanks for doing the mock-up. I like this idea.
>
> I would suggest adding the 'description' bar (like the one in
> add/remove applications)
> to the AT configuration dialog, so the user could see more info about
> the appl
Dasher in the
'Other' category by itself, etc.) It seems that a more flexible approach
is called for.
Using Ubuntu's Add/Remove Applications as a reference point I started
playing with a mock-up of a possible solution.
http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/ubuntu-ad
nical ones? If it's a question of some compile flags then I can ask
our packagers to make a DECtalk-enabled version available.
Henrik
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Another question is whether eSpeak itself is feature complete enough
(does not support asynchronous calls ATM AFAIK), but this is mediated
by the ability to install Festival or something else post-install. I do
wonder how the user community would react to a sudden switch of default
Peter Parente wrote:
> The purpose of this release is to publicly announce the change of license on
> the LSR code base from the Common Public License to the New Berkeley Software
> Distribution License (BSD) official and public.
Excellent news! Congratulations
ttings you want by default. If you
remove the conditional structure and the other options it should work. I
guess just adding
access v3
to isolinux.cfg should work too.
Then google for how to remaster :)
Henrik
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shibas, etc. There could be quite a
few of those, but the changes in each would be simple.
Henrik
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e the feature in the next Ubuntu!
Henrik
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etely new app will arise from this, just that we are looking forward.
I've deliberately avoided a classic Pros and Cons setup, but just
invented some fields that should have some relevance. Please help
complete it and add your own fields, topics and ideas!
Henrik
p
David Bolter wrote:
> Henrik, All,
>
> Hi. I'm just wondering if it might be helpful for everyone involved or
> interested in free/open-source on-screen keyboard (or alternative input
> software) development to get together in one place or on one phone call
> to educate
tself, but the results were messy, so we decided that
documenting a workaround would be better.
-- Actually your existing CD should work as well if you kill the running
version of Orca just before launching the installer.
Henrik
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on concrete implementation plans.
To help get ourselves organised, I've made a table of participants here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/UDS-MTV . Please add details about
yourself if you are participating, either on-site or remotely.
Henrik
_
re.
We will have a release candidate tomorrow and not much will change after
that.
Get a copy here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
Henrik
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e/593 Please join us if you want to
contribute to the initial planning of the Ubuntu Edgy+1 accessibility
features.
Henrik Nilsen Omma
Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator
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desktop') you
will be able to try it with Orca and Festival pre-installed (English
only). Press F5 at the first boot screen to choose from different
accessibility features.
Henrik
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for
this meeting Daniel and Jono, so I look forward to some excellent advice
on this :)
We've changed the time of this meeting to make it easier for people in
the Americas to participate (which unfortunately makes it a bad time in
Australia, sorry).
Henrik
ps. Sorry for cross-posting, but
hank smith wrote:
> is this going to be implimented in the latest unbuntu coming out in a few
> weeks?
>
Generally not. We will use Orca 1.0 (or 2.16 by the new system), but we
have taken some of these patches.
Henrik
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1x.
Some people would want to use both magnification and a filter. Separate
implementations may still be the best option for technical reasons or to
have simpler configuration of each. But in that case they should at
least work well together.
Henrik
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easily integrate this work into Ubuntu :)
Henrik
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olute no luck with
> Orca.
>
How much memory does your computer have. The Live CD requires more
memory to run than the installed version. 256MB is a real minimum, but
you should ideally have more. Accessibility tools add extra memory
overhead too.
Henrik
_
Google SoC projects, but next year I'd like to
see a separate accessibility FOSS org apply so we can get 6-8 projects
going. We could ask gnome, mozilla, OOo etc. to set aside two places
each and coordinaate those or we could do it with an organisation like
hat are known to work,
but it would be very nice to get the SmartNav or similar working since
it's so affordable. Perhaps I should get one and challenge the Ubuntu
community to write a driver ...
Henrik
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gno
make this Just Work (or close to it) I'll try to get it into Edgy final.
Henrik
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Firefox? Is the version of it that
> comes with this betas supported by Orca?
We ship Firefox 2 which has some access support but not perfect.
Hopefully we can start providing Firefox 3 packages at an early stage.
Henrik
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t;
You might also try turning of the ESD sound system (under System ->
Preferences -> Sound ) in Gnome.
Henrik
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ur non-free
repository) so that people don't have to compile it? And would you be
willing to maintain it? ;)
Henrik
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n error messages during boot. But it will all take some.
More help from other distros would help of course ...
Henrik
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horoughly pleased with what I am seeing. I have a few issues,
> like nautilus not keeping the focus tracking well. But hey if
> that's all i can complain about it's got to be good.
>
Cool! I'm sure the nautilus developers will be receptive to a bug report
about it :)
ems to work fine. See: http://www.jokosher.org/
- Henrik
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pec this up to get a proper solution for Edgy+1
Henrik
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ng, but we should
perhaps start thinking of ways to connect them with the wider Free
Software community for general support. I made a post [1] in our forum
relating this earlier today. But I'm interested to hear other ideas as
well.
- Henrik
[1] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/s
ion of usplash seems to cause the desktop CD to fail
to boot for some people, if you experience that, removing "splash"
from the kernel command line might help.
Are you able to tell if it gets to the first boot screen at all? (we
will soon have a helpful sound for that, btw).
- H
based on Omnipages engine.
>
As anyone looked at the feasibility of this:
http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2006/08/announcing-tesseract-ocr.html
?
- Henrik
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ve
poked it a bit with at-poke; It does reveal access information but how
usable it actually is with a screen reader I don't know).
- Henrik
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Bill Haneman wrote:
> Hi Henrik:
>
> Regarding knot-2, did you pick up the recent new release of gok? We
> put in some exception handling to catch the XInput device error (from
> the wacom driver, apparently) that was making gok DOA in many 6.06
> installations.
> best
? You
might want to check this page:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
Also, some recent ISOs have been over-sized, but i386 should be ok from
the 28th onward. Today or tomorrow we'll likely release 'knot-2', our
second alpha, which will at least be tested f
Peter Korn wrote:
> Hi Henrik,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts and efforts here. When it comes to keystroke
> gestures, may I direct your (and everyone else's) attention to the
> System Administration Section of the GNOME 2.14 Accessibility Guide (at
> http://www.gnome.org/
t could be improved.
- Henrik
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7;t get trapped in the
way of thinking that a few tools have to cover every single use case in
their default configuration. It should be possible to adapt both the
tools and the environment to the individual.
- Henrik
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.0.3,
with the same result.
The OOo package you tested (I guess) was just the dapper package carried
over, which works OK on dapper. So that points to Gnome 2.15, as you say.
Have anyone tested Gnome 2.15 for AT support on another distro?
- Henrik
are also rumours that speech is broken in gnome 2.15, at least on
Ubuntu. I need to test that now.
- Henrik
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'gnome-sound-properties')
You should now be in the Sound Preferences window
Press Tab-key and spacebar.
That should have turned off ESD mixing for your account.
Finally, press Alt-F4 to close that window.
You probably have to log out and back in to test it.
- Henrik
t the end of October which will also run from the Live CD.
- Henrik
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te with you in making a new and better one
(and I tried it your way first). Neither look likely to happen now.
- Henrik
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quite easily make changes as we get feedback.
>
>> We haven't make any attempt get this into Gnome 2.16 as I could see that
>> there would be strong opposition, but I think we can make a good case
>> for Gnome 2.18.
>>
>
> Absolutely not.
>
So it seems we differ on this point. Ultimately the users will decide.
- Henrik
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Bill Haneman wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-07-24 at 12:41, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
>
>> Our plan is to go ahead with the new
>> technology and deal with the problems as they arise.
>>
>
> If by this you mean that you will ship SOK in preference to GOK in
>
an be useful everywhere. I guess KmouseTool does
that, but I'm not sure if it works in Gnome.
> I like this idea. Making AT-SPI load dynamically is theoretically
> possible but there are some real feasibility issues;
>
What are the real feasibility issues? Are they menti
rd set of such GDM access
keys? This really is something that should be enabled by default, both
in Gnome and in Ubuntu.
>
> Henrik - Carlos Diogenes is working on adding Composite to gnome-mag,
> which would make it work as a drop-in enhancement. You probably should
> ping him abo
iers, it is
> basically functional and follows both mouse and keyboard focus (at least
> when properly configured).
We are also working on a compiz-based magnifier which would improve
performance, but unfortunately work is slow on this.
- Henrik
___
lly we'll see some of these improvements appearing on the Edgy
Live CDs in the next few weeks and we would appreciate if the community
here could give them a spin and report back. Thanks for your patience so
far!
Henrik
Ubuntu Accessibility Coordinator
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alt-f2
> again and tried typing install to install the ubuntu system onto a
> disc I have available for it.
The installation program is called 'ubiquity' so you might want to type
that instead. It is also the first icon on the desktop.
Thanks for sticking with us,
ack in automatically.
I'd be interested to hear if this work-around works for you.
- Henrik
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It is of course
not recommended for daily use and there will be constant updates to it
(large daily downloads).
As Calum says, unless you enjoy the unstable bleeding edge, then 2.14 is
probably your best choice.
- Henrik
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aying around. It's less handy than the keypad, but will
be less hassle while you're just trying this stuff out.
I think Luke has this working on a Laptop though, but I'm not sure which
make or how much of a hack it is.
Laptops are becoming the new standard though so we
CD. I've also put up a section on our website to cover this
need: http://www.ubuntu.com/access which has some basic info and links
to more detail in the wiki.
The Start Guide is probably your best starting point:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/StartGuide
- Henrik
__
few days, based on this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/access
- Henrik
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Bill Haneman wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 22:28, Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:
>
>
>> Bill, is it an accessibility violation to have unusable accessibility tools?
>>
>
> Are you going to say something helpful?
>
>
OK, I should have resisted that last l
you set a sticky flag. Again, each time
the user clicks a letter, SOK sends shift++unshift. When shift
is clicked again you unset the flag.
That way you avoid triggering slow keys and avoid making an
'accessibility violation'.
Bill, is it an accessibility violation to have u
e need to make choices
about what we consider to be most suitable at this time, and leave the
rest as options. Picking favourites is actually an important part of
what we do because it allows us to focus our efforts better on providing
support and fixes on those packag
ts). All these people are already on your side. If you
want to make this complaint it should go to the main developer lists of
gnome, redhat, ubuntu, etc. Though that said, I do actually think that
gnome is right in their policy on this.
Henrik Omma
Ubuntu
g in the
October/November release.
It would also be useful if you could file a bug about the city combo-box
here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug
Thanks.
- Henrik
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mes in the form of an ISO image that must be burned to a CD, and
then boot with that CD.
Some instructions on using the accessibility features are here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/StartGuide
Note that the system does have some limitations.
nd
compare with the file http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/MD5SUMS
Hope that helps.
- Henrik
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David Bolter wrote:
Peter Korn wrote:
Hi Henrik,
Cool stuff.
For the on-screen keyboard, please consider doing something like "gok
--simple" (assuming folks like David Bolter agree).
Yes. This is difficult though, since I can understand both sides of
the fence here. My b
ents working on
AT as well then we should definitely coordinate our efforts.
- Henrik
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good applicants :)
I'm not planning to make anything that is GTK-only. Our group is small
enough as it is, so we should work hard to avoid fragmentation. The plan
for the config panel for example is to have the option for multiple
front ends.
if you know any
suitable students please encourage them to apply or if you think you can
help in some other way such as with testing or advice, please join in!
Let's welcome these students to our community and give them a good start
on their projects!
- Henrik
Ubunt
Hynek Hanke wrote:
Henrik píše v Ne 23. 04. 2006 v 17:36 +0100:
There are several new AT apps coming on line that need settings panels.
From the user's perspective it would be preferable to have a single
interface for all the AT on the free desktop. The challenge of course is
that w
roject:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006
The basic design spec should take shape over the next few weeks so this
is a good time to float ideas.
- Henrik
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o to another
web page?
Yes, sorry I should have made the icons clickable; that was sloppy ;)
It's fixed now (it was just the text link before). When you click you go
to pages like this:
http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/at-conf/orca_voices.html that can each
have a whole range of setti
he next step would be
to write a python version that would generate the GUI in real time,
which then in turn could be linked to a back-end that would read, parse
and write the config files.
See mock-up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/at-conf/main.html
Tarball: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henr
with a smaller
screen will have issues from that, but larger will be fine). Trouble is
we cant even get gnopernicus to pick up the default settings that are
given in the gconf schema file included with the package.
Any ideas?
- Henrik
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r now there will be a steady stream of updates until
the final release is out in about 6 weeks, but these will be mainly
cosmetic. I've used it for months and would say it is ready for home use
while enterprise might want to wait with doing larger deployments.
d be happy to collaborate on the
design and implementation of it. Perhaps we can do some pre-design work
and then put up a bounty for the implementation, a Summer of Code
project perhaps.
- Henrik
--
http://www.ubuntu.com
http://www.theopencd.org
__
Bill Haneman wrote:
Henrik:
I think Flite uses the same file format. ( Will, please correct me if
I'm wrong).
By same format you mean the same speech files? So what is the main
benefit of F-lite, a smaller memory footprint? (and java cross-platformness)
It also requires a Java JRE, ar
Does Festival include all it's supported languages
by default or are they packaged separately (as packaged in Debian)? We
would be happy to settle for English-only support this time around.
Thank you. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
course IBM is still working away at its voice recognition technology
deep in its labs. I expect the next generation will be very much better
than what we have seen so far.
- Henrik
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ike esp. now with this push to introduce ODF in MA by
01.01.2007 that this is the time to band together and push things
forward :) Thoughts?
(I'm CCing the KDE list as well, which I'm not subscribed to ATM. Hope
it gets through)
- Henrik
___
gno
past experiences (sorry for the added traffic).
This is a work in progress, so feedback is welcome :) Once we agree on
the general structure and have tests defined, I'll post on the Ubuntu
user lists and forum to ask for testers.
Cheers,
Henrik
_
I confirm the problems faced with using the system core pointer. Overcoming the
problems has caused a great deal of developer pain. Henrik, if you and ubuntu
could help improve the gok feedback (dialog) -- to make it less confusing that
would be very welcome.
Sure, I'll do some initial
K1 though, and probably won't
compile with Gnome 2.
- Henrik
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evelopment.
- Henrik
Ubuntu Accessibility Team
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urse install a bunch of KDE
libraries too, but that's OK. You can resize the window of kmag like any
other application. (sorry to post this on the gnome list, but I think
it's useful advice ...)
Good luck!
Henrik Nilsen Omna
Ubuntu Accessibility Team
https://wik
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