Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Wols Lists wrote: > On 04/08/20 08:42, Wols Lists wrote: >> Both LVM and btrfs offer snapshotting, so you take a snapshot before >> doing an in-place rsync, giving you one full backup per snapshot, but >> the drive is actually only storing the changes between snapshots. >> Probably run the backup m

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 04/08/20 08:42, Wols Lists wrote: > Both LVM and btrfs offer snapshotting, so you take a snapshot before > doing an in-place rsync, giving you one full backup per snapshot, but > the drive is actually only storing the changes between snapshots. > Probably run the backup much faster too. Just st

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 04/08/20 04:17, Dale wrote: > This drive is formatted with ext4. It doesn't have LVM or anything just > straight ext4. Given it is external, I didn't see the point of having > LVM on it and adding another layer to deal with when there is no > benefits to it. LVM has a big advantage if not mu

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:24 AM Dale wrote: >> In the past, I've never seen the drive on the larger files be that slow even >> toward the end. Generally, it stays pretty close to 180MBs/sec or so which >> is what I usually get with PMR drives. > Yeah, just hard to be certai

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:24 AM Dale wrote: > > In the past, I've never seen the drive on the larger files be that slow even > toward the end. Generally, it stays pretty close to 180MBs/sec or so which > is what I usually get with PMR drives. Yeah, just hard to be certain without ditching the f

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:30 AM Dale wrote: >> Little update here. Rich, I think you mentioned it would slow down when it >> ran out of PMR space while trying to redo the shingled part. Up until now, >> I hadn't ran into that issue. It seems the PMR section for this drive

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:30 AM Dale wrote: > > Little update here. Rich, I think you mentioned it would slow down when it > ran out of PMR space while trying to redo the shingled part. Up until now, I > hadn't ran into that issue. It seems the PMR section for this drive is > somewhere around

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Howdy all, Little update here.  Rich, I think you mentioned it would slow down when it ran out of PMR space while trying to redo the shingled part.  Up until now, I hadn't ran into that issue.  It seems the PMR section for this drive is somewhere around 40 or 50GBs, maybe 60GBs.  I hadn't had time

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Monday, 6 January 2020 13:53:41 GMT Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:25 AM Mick wrote: > > If they are used as normal PC drives for regular writing > > of data, or with back up commands which use rsync, cp, etc. then the disk > > will fail much sooner than expected because of repe

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM Dale wrote: > > The drive I have is likely > done on the drive itself, device managed, which is good for me. Really the ideal situation are the Host Aware drives. I have no idea what percentage of the markets they make. They fall back to being device managed if t

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:18 AM Dale wrote: >> Rich Freeman wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:25 AM Mick wrote: If they are used as normal PC drives for regular writing of data, or with back up commands which use rsync, cp, etc. then the disk will fail

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:18 AM Dale wrote: > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:25 AM Mick wrote: > >> If they are used as normal PC drives for regular writing > >> of data, or with back up commands which use rsync, cp, etc. then the disk > >> will > >> fail much sooner than expe

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:25 AM Mick wrote: >> If they are used as normal PC drives for regular writing >> of data, or with back up commands which use rsync, cp, etc. then the disk >> will >> fail much sooner than expected because of repeated multiple areas being >> deleted,

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:25 AM Mick wrote: > > If they are used as normal PC drives for regular writing > of data, or with back up commands which use rsync, cp, etc. then the disk will > fail much sooner than expected because of repeated multiple areas being > deleted, before each smaller write.

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Monday, 6 January 2020 08:48:13 GMT Stefan Schmiedl wrote: > Dale, > > "Dale" , 06.01.2020, 09:29: > > Also, when looking for a drive to buy, what should one look at to see if > > it is a SMR drive? You will need to visit the OEMs website and dig into the documentation they provide. Keywords

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Dale, "Dale" , 06.01.2020, 09:29: > Also, when looking for a drive to buy, what should one look at to see if > it is a SMR drive? While it may be OK for my backups, I'd like to avoid > them on the drives inside my rig that are used for the OS or /home. I > dunno, just a gut thing. it's not "j

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Dale wrote: > <<< SNIP >>> > Should I change the mounting options for this drive?  I've read some > people use certain options for SSD and they are needed.  This is the > options being used according to mount: > > /dev/sdj1 on /run/media/dale/8tb-backup type ext4 > (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uhelper

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 8:51 AM Spackman, Chris wrote: > > udisksctl power-off --block-device /dev/sdx > > I didn't see that command mentioned in the thread yet. I've been using > it, after umount, for about 8 months for roughly weekly backups and > some misc storage. So far, I've not seen any prob

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 2020/01/01 at 08:00pm, Dale wrote: > Grant Taylor wrote: > > On 1/1/20 5:09 PM, Dale wrote: > > Note:  umount will normally block until buffers are flushed to disk. > > > >> Is it safe to turn it off even tho it is doing whatever it is doing? > > > > I wouldn't. > > > >> Should I wait? > > > >

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 7:43 PM Wol wrote: > > And yes - the 8TB capacity gave it away - I think the largest "normal" > drives available are 4TB at present ... anything bigger must be shingled. > I have several non-SMR drives in the 8-12TB range, shucked from those WD external drives that occasion

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 02/01/2020 19:12, Rich Freeman wrote: For reads they're completely normal. For sequential writes to unused space they're completely normal. For random writes or overwrites they are significantly different from traditional hard drives. That's why the "S" stands for "shingled" (which means "

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 1:41 PM Dale wrote: >> Rich Freeman wrote: >>> Out of curiosity, what model drive is it? Is it by chance an SMR / >>> archive drive? >> Device Model: ST8000AS0003-2HH188 >> >> I recall reading about SMR but can't recall the details of what it is. >

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, January 2, 2020 12:12 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 1:41 PM Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > > Out of curiosity, what model drive is it? Is it by chance an SMR / > > > archive drive? > > > > Devic

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 1:41 PM Dale wrote: > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > Out of curiosity, what model drive is it? Is it by chance an SMR / > > archive drive? > > Device Model: ST8000AS0003-2HH188 > > I recall reading about SMR but can't recall the details of what it is. > As far as I know,

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 5:49 AM Dale wrote: >> lol I didn't think of that and I don't recall anyone else thinking of >> it either. > That is because syncing before unmounting doesn't do anything. Unless > you use --lazy umount blocks until all writes are complete to a > devi

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Francisco Ares wrote: > > > Em qui., 2 de jan. de 2020 às 07:49, Dale > escreveu: > > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 20:27:34 -0600, Dale wrote: > > > >>> If you wait for a few seconds after the backup is completed before > >>> you unmo

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 11:23 AM Mick wrote: > > On Thursday, 2 January 2020 14:43:58 GMT Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > Out of curiosity, what model drive is it? Is it by chance an SMR / > > archive drive? > > Good catch! I hadn't thought of this - the Linux kernel will need to have > DM_ZONED enab

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thursday, 2 January 2020 14:43:58 GMT Rich Freeman wrote: > Out of curiosity, what model drive is it? Is it by chance an SMR / > archive drive? Good catch! I hadn't thought of this - the Linux kernel will need to have DM_ZONED enabled I think, for the OS to manager the shingled writes s

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 5:49 AM Dale wrote: > > lol I didn't think of that and I don't recall anyone else thinking of > it either. That is because syncing before unmounting doesn't do anything. Unless you use --lazy umount blocks until all writes are complete to a device. The instant it returns

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Em qui., 2 de jan. de 2020 às 07:49, Dale escreveu: > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 20:27:34 -0600, Dale wrote: > > > >>> If you wait for a few seconds after the backup is completed before > >>> you unmount the drive, you should be OK. Although it may slow down > >>> or any LEDs fl

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 20:27:34 -0600, Dale wrote: > >>> If you wait for a few seconds after the backup is completed before >>> you unmount the drive, you should be OK. Although it may slow down >>> or any LEDs flash less frequently the drive may not stop spinning, >>> unless th

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 20:27:34 -0600, Dale wrote: > > If you wait for a few seconds after the backup is completed before > > you unmount the drive, you should be OK. Although it may slow down > > or any LEDs flash less frequently the drive may not stop spinning, > > unless there is some power save p

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Bill Kenworthy wrote: > On 2/1/20 10:27 am, Dale wrote: >> Mick wrote: >>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020 00:09:14 GMT Dale wrote: Howdy, As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back ups on.  Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed.  >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Bill Kenworthy wrote: > On 2/1/20 10:27 am, Dale wrote: >> Mick wrote: >>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020 00:09:14 GMT Dale wrote: Howdy, As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back ups on.  Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed.  >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 2/1/20 10:27 am, Dale wrote: Mick wrote: On Thursday, 2 January 2020 00:09:14 GMT Dale wrote: Howdy, As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back ups on. Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed. Usually I turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Mick wrote: > On Thursday, 2 January 2020 00:09:14 GMT Dale wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back >> ups on. Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed. Usually I >> turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups, unmount and turn t

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Grant Taylor wrote: > On 1/1/20 5:09 PM, Dale wrote: >> Howdy, > > Hi, > >> As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do >> back ups on.  Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed. >> Usually I turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups, unmount and >> turn the po

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On Thursday, 2 January 2020 00:09:14 GMT Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back > ups on. Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed. Usually I > turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups, unmount and turn the power > back of

Re: [gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

On 1/1/20 5:09 PM, Dale wrote: Howdy, Hi, As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back ups on. Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed. Usually I turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups, unmount and turn the power back off. Usually it is powere

[gentoo-user] External hard drive and idle activity

Howdy, As some may recall, I have a 8TB external SATA hard drive that I do back ups on.  Usually, I back up once a day, more often if needed.  Usually I turn the power on, mount it, do the back ups, unmount and turn the power back off.  Usually it is powered up for 5 minutes or so.  When I unmount