t to continue this thread take it off the
> GCC mailing list.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ian
Welcome to the consequences of abandoning "You shall judge by the code alone."
This is what it will be like, *forever*, until you reassert that norm.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
aling of no help to anyone.
If I needed more evidence that many Americans lead pampered,
cossetted, hyper-insulated lives that require them to make up their
own drama, this whole flap would be it.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
e as a whole to treat the profit-centered parts of the
economy as allies rather than enemies.
I won't say that a *majority* of us were resistent to this, but I
did have to work hard on the problem for a while, between 1997
and about 2003.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
a
galloping moral panic that somehow justifies stoning RMS and driving
him out of the village?
*grumble* Get *over* yourselves. You want to be "welcoming" to
women? Don't patronize or infantilize them - respect their ability to
tell off RMS for themselves *and then keep working with him*!
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Adrian via Gcc :
> Eric S. Raymond :
> > there is actually a value conflict between being "welcoming" in that
> sense and the actual purpose of this list, which is to ship code.
>
> Speaking as a "high functioning autist", I'm aware of the diff
hipping good code.
Complaints need to be discounted accordingly, to a degree that would
not have been required before the development of a self-reinforcing
culture of complaint and rage-mobbing around 2014.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > I'm not judging RMS's behavior (or anyone else's) one way or
> > another. I am simply pointing out that there is a Schelling point in
> > possible community norms that is well expressed as
of natural equilibrium in a two- or molti-player game, such that
when you move away from it all parties' decision costs go way up.)
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
s clear that the amount of social friction
oroduced by attempts to eject the jerks will be far higher than if
you simply continued to tolerate them.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
u face a choice between being a community that is about shipping code
and one that is embroiled in perpetual controversy over who gets to
play here and on what terms. Choose wisely.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ad-bearers to support who aren't me.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
r of different possbilities here. You get to chose
based onm how you like your histiry to look.
Discussion of my choice is here:
https://blog.ntpsec.org/2017/04/09/single-head-provable-steps.html
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
age, which is different
> than the (possibly simple) commit messages above? Is that done after I've
> pulled my local branch into my master? ...or before? ...or during the
> merge over?
I do it at rebase -i time along with the squash of the series.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
nly unrelated. In normal use git is *spectacularly* faster than
SVN on equivalent operations.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
e crucial scrap-and-rebuild decision, the new reader might
have landed too late.
There's a lesson in here somewhere. When I figure out what it is, I'll
put it in my next book.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> I want to consider the conversion machinery essentially frozen at this
> point and not to add any new features not present in the conversion now
Very well, I won't push the inegration change for those commits.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
not think we would have achieved as good a result
> overall if he hadn't developed his scripts.
Yes. Reposurgeon's ChangeLog processing, in particular, was significantly
improved using lessons learned from maxim's scripts.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
e a really good time for that. We
have only three days at most left to integrate them.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
-- Marcus Aurelius
see anything that looks wrong or anomalous please send up a rocket
*immediately*. The faster you let us know, the more likely it is we'll
be able to nip in with a fix while that is still possible.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ey use your feedback to find places where their comment-processing
scripts could be improved; we've used it learn what additional
oddities in ChangeLogs we need to be able to handle automatically.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
uable* - it captures knowledge that will make future comparisons
easier and better.
Software engineers (outside of a few AI specialists) don't ordinarily
think of themselves as being in the knowledge-capture business. But
it's a useful perspective to cultivate.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
e sure to get the ΓΈ right what you fill in the name. :-)
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
unparseable entry
headers for human intervention, and as of today it does that.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
bsence of stronger evidence, I'm going to just put bjornw as
> the name.
What's weak about that? The full email address matches. Un;rdd you
think there are two hackers nameed Bjorn, with a last initial of W,
running around using the same email address, I think we have a winner.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
completeness I note thse for which we have no tarballs:
r1184 = 2.2, r2674 = 2.3.1, r4493 = 2.4.0 "minus two swapped commits",
r5867 = 2.5.0, r7771 = 2.6.0, r9996 = 2.7.0.
This recomstruction is being tracked here:
https://gitlab.com/esr/gcc-conversion/issues/4
--
http:
give us a Subversion revision, though.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ould be a good bet too.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
n list and again remove duplicates. That way the list can be
> limited to non-encoding variations.
Be aware that repusurgeon has a "transcode" command for moving
a specified set of object to UTF-8 from a specified encoding.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ter the project was CVSed. I'm
looking for older sources.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions,
that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when
wrong, but better
Andreas Schwab :
> On Dez 25 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > That's easily fixed by adding a timezone entry to your author-map
> > entry - CET, is it?
>
> The time zone is not constant.
Congratulations, you have broken one of reposurgeon's assumptions.
I
consists of bizarre malformations collected during past
conversions. GCC has added its share.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ally easy to get subtly wrong.
Frankly, I don't want to touch this mess with insulated
tongs. Somebody would have to offer me serious money to
compensate for the expected level of pain.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
se
> hard-to-workaround differences.
I was going to write that feature yesterday, then Julien nipped in and
did it while my back was turned. It's a read option,
--no-automatic-ignores.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
all commits are consifered
to have occurred at UTC time on a central repository.
I think time as well as date matters because soimetimes it could be
information of significance what order commits were in even if they
were on the same day.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Toon Moene :
> On 12/26/19 10:30 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > Me, I don't undertstand why version-control systems designed for distributed
> > use don't ignore timezones entirely and display all times in UTC - relative
> > time is surely more imoortant than
to solar
noon wherever the keyboard happened to be. But I don't make these decisions.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
d use working on Joseph's RFEs
instead.
If you're concerned about the quality of reposurgeon's conversion,
you'd be a good person to work on a comparison tool. Should I email you
a copy of the repodiffer code as it last existed in my repository?
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Alexandre Oliva :
> On Dec 25, 2019, "Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
>
> > Reposurgeon has a reparent command. If you have determined that a
> > branch is detached or has an incorrect attachment point, patching the
> > metadata of the root node to fix that is very eas
he committer, and
Changelog parsing is done only after translation. That's probably the
source of this bug.
If anybody cares enough to file a bug with a test load attached, I
can probably fix this.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
resoltion.
There is no way we'll get this perfect. But there is more wrong and
less wrong, and reposurgeon tries hard to be less wrong.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
lifornia, though. Maybe
I ought to be logging timezone deductions so we can trace them back.
Has anyone else seen wrong timezone attributions?
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
differently unless they need to do
sonething that *unavoidably* crosses that boundary, like looking uo a
legacy ID grom an old bug report.
Reposurgeon was designed for this goal from the beginning.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ent - the syntactic cues it's working with are weak
and false matches are all too easy.
I've got to have 1 before I can even try to deal with 2.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
d theoretically be done in a reasonable amount of time. But there
is a lot of devil in the practical details.
The reposurgeon suite once included a tool for such comparisons.
Last year this happened:
commit b8a609925ba70a6b68f9eda1d748eb667ad2fa59
Author: Eric S. Raymond
Date: Fri Aug 24 12:40:
hould not affect the GCC conversion. We expect to
fix these over the next few days, anyway.
We have one remaining RFE from Richard Earnshaw that would
be nice to have, but is not essential. I'll be working on that.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
If
t think that should affect things, as I think Joseph has a good handle
> on what needs to be done and I think I've handed over everything that's
> needed w.r.t. the commit summary reprocessing script.
OK, that's good to know. I wish you good fortune with the emergency.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > There are other problems that might cause a delay beyond the
> > 31st, however. Best if I let Joseph nd Richard explain those.
>
> I presume that's referring to the checkme: bug annotations wher
eal time pressure.
There are other problems that might cause a delay beyond the
31st, however. Best if I let Joseph nd Richard explain those.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why reposurgeon has to be as
> > large and complex as it is.
>
> And, in the end, it *is* complex software on which you build simple
> scripts. gcc.lift is a si
s why reposurgeon has to be as
large and complex as it is.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
is tricky, subtler than it
looks, and has rebarbative edge cases. Even given the ckeanest
possible implementatiion, troubleshooting it is no mean feat.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&label_name[]=GCC
Presently 6 items including 2 bugs. One of those bugs may already be
fixed, we're waiting on Joseph's current conversion to see.
Counting time do all the RFEs requested, polishing, and final review
I think we're looking at another week, maybe a bit less if things go
well. You guys could get a final conversion under your Yule tree.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
do what you eant.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ns from ChangeLog.
> files, not just plain ChangeLog).
There is also a known but minor bug in ChangeLog mining at branch roots.
I'm working on that and expect to have a fix shortly.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
d. Can
Maxim's scripts get everything right that reposurgeon does?
If anyone wants to audit for that, my test suite is open source. May
the best program win!
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
and keeping it reasonably clean - is generally
considered a sign of responsible maintainership.
In conclusion, I'm happy that you're so concerned about bugs in
reposurgeon. I am too. You're welcome to file issues and help us
improve our already-extensive test suite by shipping u
of its auxiliary tools.
Every time that happens, everybody - into the indefinite future - wins.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
tributing
code to reposurgeon.
We'll get this done faster if nobody is joggling his elbow. Or mine.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
job to tell you what to do, anyway. Any of those
choices might be helpful; sniping from the sidelines is not.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
eon on freenode and help out. Anyone
who can run tests on a machine with >128GB RAM would be especially
welcome.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
might
even have a final conversion on the original 16 Dec deadline, though
I'm personally guessing it will take a bit longer than that.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
lt. It helps that we now have a detailed characterization
of the pathological trunk deletion at r184996; most of the conversion
problems radiated from that.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
rsion tool.
Which is a major reason that reposurgeon has a *large* test suite. 98
general operations tests, 55 Subversion test dumps including a rogue's
gallery of metadata perversions gathered from pervious conversions,
and a cloud of surrounding auxiliary checks.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
//www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
r months and years later.
Experience matters at this. So does staying away from tools like git-svn that
are known to be bad.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
d with it too often during
past conversions. It has a nasty habit of leaving damage in places
that are difficult to audit.
I agree that you've made a best possible effort to avod being bitten
by using it only for basic blocks. That was clever and the right thing
to do, and I *still* don't trust it.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Joseph Myers wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> >
> > > Joseph Myers :
> > > > I just tried a leading-segment load up to r14877, but it didn't
> > > > reproduce
> > >
Joseph Myers :
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > Joseph Myers :
> > > I just tried a leading-segment load up to r14877, but it didn't reproduce
> > > the problems I see with r14877 in a full repository conversion - it seems
> > >
Well, there's a bisection-like strategy for finding the minimum
leading segment that produces misbehavior. My conversion crew will
apply it as hard as we need to to get the job done.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
orever. Which means
it's practical to do detailed forensics on the defect even if you don't
have handy an EC12 instance with ridiculo-humongous amonts of RAM.
Now I'm pretty certain we can finish this. A matter of when, not if.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
might be a trivial tweak to
the splice command I commented out.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
r/gcc-conversion
In the next few days I expect the remaining problems to move from
nechanism to policy choices. At that point, broader review of the
recipe and the conversion progress starts to become desirable.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
"The
the tag for GCC 10.1 to say "10.1" somewhere in
> its name rather than "10_1".
That is correct. I recommend mapping tags from using "_" to using
".", they're just plain more readable that way. I have done this in
previous conversions.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
incremental improvements a day into
> the repository.
Sure. I only found one "Richard Earnshaw" and one "Joseph Myers" on Gitlab,
so I have given both Developer access. I changed thw branch protection rules so
Developers can push.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
on that once I finish debugging the analyzer
rewrite.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
arate passes.
We'll know in a day or two, I think. The rewrite is done; I'm
troubleshooting some problems that I *think* are minor but which are
blocking merging to HEAD.
Once I get the new analyzer passing regressions I'll do a read-limited
conversion up to r14900 and see what's up.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
//www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ts much easier.
> All the current gcc-conversion merge requests, both mine and Richard's,
> should now be set to allow rebasing.
They were, and are all merged now, except for one that Richard just landed.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
sion out of that I think it's all over
but the cleanup and policy tinkering.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
gs in
the analyzer is more important.
I'll leave it to you guys to discuss the policy issues. In general I
think you can safely throw out branchphoint tagas and emptycommits;
reposurgeon only preserves those on the theoretical chance that there
might be something interesting in the change comments.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
n occurs on Richard Earnshaw's reqyests.
The GitLab interface seems fickle and arbitrary at times.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
cc.lift, once tag deletion is
> working reliably?
That's what tag deletion by regexp is for.
One of reposurgeon's design rules is "never add a special-purpose switch
or flag when an application of the selection-set minilanfuage will do"
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ean up once I've dealt with the more pressing
issues.
Please file issues about these bugs so I can track then.
On the first one, it would be helpful if you could list some tags
that these match expressions fail to pick up from as early as
possible. Shortening the leading segment I need to load speeds up
my test cycle significantly,
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ssity of a scrap-and-rebuild. It's
not done yet, but it's pretty well advanced.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
mmand probably means your reposurgeon is very old.
What does "version" say?
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ing to speed up. Looks like that backfired.
Please file isses at https://gitlab.com/esr/reposurgeon/issues and
include timing reports if you can.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
if the SHA codes are stable, but in my conversion, done
> last night, it comes out at 44b84e63a8b00b9881fbb93d3af1536c2338aa72
>
> There's another example at r20 on the same branch, which has even
> more links.
>
> R.
File an issue here, please.
https://gitlab.co
ng to find that the value of Subversion revision references
fades pretty fast after the conversion. That has been my experience with
other conversions.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
**2) in that
phase that has since been fixed. Try the Go code from
https://gitlab.com/esr/reposurgeon; it is *much* faster.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Joseph Myers :
> I think the main thing to make sure of in the conversion regarding that
> issue is that cherry-picks do *not* turn into merge commits
I confirm that this is how it now works.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ell me that the bug is
exhibited within a few thousand commits of origin and point at where,
that I could work with.
An issue filed on the reposurgeon tracker would be appreciated.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
bers, providing
the anomaly rate isn't high, that's upwards of 3000 messages per hour.
The point is that for this kind of task a hnman being who undertands
what he's reading is likely to have a lower rate of mangling errors than
a program that doesn't.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ands vanished, probably
due to a finger error wgile I was editing the translation. I have
restored it.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ry line. This code assumes it can insert
a blank line if the first line of the comment ends with '.', ',', ':',
';', '?', or '!'. If the separator line is already present, the comment
won't be touched.
Takes a selection set, defaulting to all commits and tags.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
ecent revision that CVS did a copy from. This is simple and seems to
give satisfactory results.
Which reminds me. I found a bunch of "svnmerge-integrated" properites
in the history. Should I treat those as though they were mergeinfo
properies and make branch merges from them?
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
le to
concentrate on the conversion until it's done.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Our society won't be truly free until "None of the Above" is always an option.
Joseph Myers :
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2019, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > > You might want to update the state of reposurgeon on that page.
> >
> > I will do so.
>
> Note that once you've created an account, someone will need to add it to
> the EditorGr
d by something much larger to miss that deadline.
> You might want to update the state of reposurgeon on that page.
I will do so.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
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