Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-30 Thread glen∈ℂ
Yes, exactly! Referring back to the spectrum between episodic and diachronic personalities, it strikes me that the regular accusations I get of non sequitur, are something like hairpin turns in my (always bad) rhetoric. It's also just plain fun to do it and I wish others would do it to me as of

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-28 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve writes: I'm reminded of a book (long misplaced) I inherited from my grandfather's library (born in 1898) who was for a modest time (<10 years) the principal of a High School. The book's title was "Straight and Crooked Thinking" and had a modest amount of marginalia in his (I

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-28 Thread Steven A Smith
glen∈ℂ wrote: > The 3 excerpts below seem to indicate the (my?) problem. At first, I > though Marcus was agreeing with me by listing options for > harm-of-eating-animals. But then he goes toward monism-by-unification > with "agreeing on what matters" and > whole-equilibrium-implies-part-equilibriu

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: < But then he goes toward monism-by-unification with "agreeing on what matters" and whole-equilibrium-implies-part-equilibrium. > The context was Steve's query about whether I think that multi-objective optimization is better than single-objective optimization. That's not monism,

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread glen∈ℂ
The 3 excerpts below seem to indicate the (my?) problem. At first, I though Marcus was agreeing with me by listing options for harm-of-eating-animals. But then he goes toward monism-by-unification with "agreeing on what matters" and whole-equilibrium-implies-part-equilibrium. And I thought Stev

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve writes: Too much of our energy seems to be going into characterizing "the other" as inimical to our own interests and all but guaranteeing a "tectonic event" is the only way to resolve those differences. “How did you go bankrupt?" Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” ― Ernest H

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Steven A Smith
Marcus wrote: > > One might argue that is harmful to eat animals. One way argue that would be > to imagine that you were to be eaten. How would you feel?That assumes > that all species are equally valuable or perceive things in a comparable way. > A hedonist might argue that the pleasu

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve wrote: I assume you mean this in the sense of "single issue voters" and in the more general sense of multivariate optimization being more "effective" than univariate in general problem solving? One might argue that is harmful to eat animals. One way argue that would be to ima

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Steven A Smith
Marcus - > The refusal to optimize on one dimension is in general a good policy. I assume you mean this in the sense of "single issue voters" and in the more general sense of multivariate optimization being more "effective" than univariate in general problem solving? >And illustrating the inter

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Marcus Daniels
The refusal to optimize on one dimension is in general a good policy. And illustrating the interchangeability of symbols in a structural argument is also a good thing. A better way to argue though, which is not to boil the ocean but simply to say, "Instances are of no interest to me, let's t

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread Steven A Smith
> It's not clear to me which of these Marcus was responding to. But it > seems like he was responding to (1) with the variation as a function > of changes in perspective. But your teasing with (2) seems likely, > too, from which I infer that our world-cutters are dynamic and can be > complexified

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread glen∈ℂ
It's not clear to me which of these Marcus was responding to. But it seems like he was responding to (1) with the variation as a function of changes in perspective. But your teasing with (2) seems likely, too, from which I infer that our world-cutters are dynamic and can be complexified dependi

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-27 Thread glen∈ℂ
Well, bait and switch is a common, special, sub-category of the very topic, which is: the map between how we (artificially) cut up the world versus how the world actually is. What Alexander was pointing out was exactly that. Of course, when it's our preemptively registered ontology that's being

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-26 Thread Marcus Daniels
: "friam@redfish.com" Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts Glen - I keyboarded a typically long and torturous contribution to this thread early on, but decided to hold it back and look for a more succinct response. Some high points, in summary: 1. Stick and Stones ... 2

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-26 Thread Steven A Smith
Glen - I keyboarded a typically long and torturous contribution to this thread early on, but decided to hold it back and look for a more succinct response.  Some high points, in summary: 1. Stick and Stones ... 2. Passive-Aggressive modes/roles in Kolmogorov Models 3. Outlier identification wi

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-19 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Well, sure. But you seem to be relying on some sort of ontological primacy for the person/animal/organism. Processes like defamation or corruption (or their opposites) are only different from processes like tissue remodeling or healing in *scale* or degree, not type/kind. Both involve large coll

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-19 Thread Marcus Daniels
< Calling someone an "abuser" implicitly assumes that there are proper ways to use people and there are improper ways to use people, which seems a little silly when you say that out loud. > That said, a physically weak person is entirely capable of abusing a physically strong person if they ha

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-19 Thread glen∈ℂ
Yeah, I had the same reaction. But I lost to my own argument. Since Renee's been a grievance officer for her union, she and I've had an argument about "violence in the workplace". She claims (and both the union and management agree) that harsh words and aggressive tone and body language constitu

Re: [FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-19 Thread Marcus Daniels
"She told me that sometimes she needed her boyfriend to do some favor for her, and he wouldn’t, so she would cry – not as an attempt to manipulate him, just because she was sad. She counted this as abuse, because her definition of “abuse” is “something that makes your partner feel bad about sett

[FRIAM] Posts from the Scotts

2019-07-18 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
It was pointed out to me awhile back that I'd been relatively quiet. So, here's an excuse to post! 2 posts by my favorite Scotts: 1) Against Lie Inflation https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/16/against-lie-inflation/ 2) On two blog posts of Jerry Coyne https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p