Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

I am amazed that the total extraction is only 85,000 tons/year now. If all vehicular transportation does go Li or Li-ion battery-based, we really should be planning for all this to be integrated with demand-buffering of the grid. No reason to build a completely separate parallel buffer bank u

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Bravo! --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 9:09 PM David Eric Smith wrote: > Please allow me to try to make things worse, if I can. > > I worry that I may be partly responsible for the origin of this thread, in > my jabs

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

Yep, back to the grid or to the house if the grid goes out. People could tune their policy on the web ahead of time. But the grid need not go out if the grid is distributed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxe352yOYyk From: Friam On Behalf Of David Eric Smith Sent: Friday, September 3, 2021

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

No. I never managed upside down. Wait a minute! Is upside down an exception to the rule? Oh, no, it isn’t. It reverses front to back. Barry, this is all coming from something I thought I heard EricS say about trying to get out of logic what only empirical observation will provide.

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Proving once again that, no however deep Thompson tries to go, Zingale can go deeper, much deeper. Ok, is mathematics (logic, etc.) a way of arriving at true propositions distinct from observation or are mathematical truths different from empirical truths? I keep hearing Hywel in my

[FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Beginning with Oxford, *empirical*: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. Where then Nick goes on to argue, perhaps, that *experience of logic* is *experience* and so "experience *rather than* theory or pure logic" is meaningless.

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Well, your discovery was certainly empirical. The explanation is mathematical, having to do what you can do with an oriented surface. BTW, did you take a picture when you put it on upside down? I can visualize a couple of ways you could have done that, but if you weren’t doing hand stands the

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Well, speak for yourself, oh mathematician. For me, it was first an empirical observation. n Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Frank W

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

It doesn't take much observing to realize that rotations of an object in 3D are not commutative. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 12:41 PM Russ Abbott wrote: > I would guess that most mathematical discoveries are first

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

I would guess that most mathematical discoveries are first encountered empirically. Then the mathematician who encounters it attempts to prove the observed phenomenon mathematically. Your bachelor example illustrates. Once you discovered the apparent phenomenon that all unmarried men are bachelors

[FRIAM] Still interested in System Dynamics?

Good people: Should any of you still be interested in System Dynamics (or Dynamic Systems), I watched an interesting webinar a couple days ago on System Dynamics and Urban Housing. A couple take-aways: * "Temporary" housing not only does not alleviate the difficulties but may, in fact, make things

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Eric, Nick's question and the parsing of discoveries into two types intrigue me. I'm an engineer, so maybe I have a deep seeded philosophy of science envy? Pieter On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 19:58, Eric Charles wrote: > Why are we parsing discoveries into those two types? > > I think traditionally,

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Why are we parsing discoveries into those two types? I think traditionally, "mathematical" would have been synonymous with "rigorous deduction groin a minimal number of axioms", but I doubt that approach is clear cut anymore. Given that you claim to have sussed out your insight via systematic *e

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Group theory. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 11:25 AM wrote: > By discovery, I mean only happening on a regularity that was unexpected. > > > > I guess I didn’t need all the razzle-dazzle about the t-shirts. Let’s s

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

It could be both. If you just describe it in terms of t-shirts then it is an empirical scientific law. You can claim to have discovered an empirical scientific law If you now express it in mathematical terms, and the mathematical community accepts it as true, then it is then a mathematical axiom.

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

By discovery, I mean only happening on a regularity that was unexpected. I guess I didn’t need all the razzle-dazzle about the t-shirts. Let’s say that I, being totally naïve of logic, announced to friam that I had made a survey of all my never-married male friends and each and every one cla

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

OK fine. Is it an empirical thingamabob or a mathematical one. Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles Sent: Friday, September 3, 20

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Nick, I quote from https://www.britannica.com/science/scientific-theory "In attempting to explain objects and events, the scientist employs (1) careful observation or experiments, (2) reports of regularities, and (3) systematic explanatory schemes (theories). The statements of regularities, if acc

Re: [FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

I mean... I feel like "discovery" if the first challenge for your classification system to justify... ;- ) On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 11:24 AM wrote: > Colleagues, > > > > Years ago, my daughter, who knows I hate to shop, bought me a bunch of > plain T-shirts. The label’s on the shirts were printed,

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

For now there is the Salton Sea. GM Will Suck Lithium From the Salton Sea to Make Batteries (autoweek.com) From: Friam On Behalf Of Jon Zingale Sent: Friday, September 3, 2021 8:05 AM

[FRIAM] Can empirical discoveries be mathematical?

Colleagues, Years ago, my daughter, who knows I hate to shop, bought me a bunch of plain T-shirts. The label's on the shirts were printed, rather than attached, and so have faded. Each morning, this leaves me with the problem of decerning which is the front and which the back of the shirt, an

Re: [FRIAM] Liberal dilemmas

Now that Afghanistan is prepped to be the Democratic Republic of Congo 2.0 (this time lithium rather than coltan), I suspect that the world is poised for a whole new liberal dilemma: 1. Continue to support an oil industry largely responsible for rapid climate collapse. 2. Switch to supporting a bat