Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread Tom Carter
All - Probably too much to respond to, but for no particularly good reason, a few comments . . . 1.) Whenever I teach about logic / scientific-method, one thing I make sure to do is remind students that "deduction" is not a "truth *producing*" system, but is at best a "truth *preserving*"

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread Eric Smith
Thank you Lee and Glen both, Yes, I could not disagree. There is an interesting question, Glen, on which I don't have a dog in the fight either way. Is the worry about induction only (or even mostly) about the origin of conjectures, or is it (equally much, or even mostly) about the source o

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread lrudolph
Eric Smith: > every child knows there can be no discussion of induction that is not > predicated on the availability of infinities. Not so (independent of what every child knows)! I have to rush off but will try to get back to this later.

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread glen e. p. ropella
That's an awesome essay! Thanks. Of course, I never say anything unless I have something to disagree with... So, I have 2 points to argue about: 1) Your finiteness is illusory because you assume crisp sets, and 2) The problem of induction is about the origins of a conjecture, not merely about t

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread Eric Smith
I agree, Wow, to Eric Charles's summary. Can I ask, is there any role for finiteness in this discussion? There seem to me to be two places the constraints of being finite enter, and the specific point at which they seem forced by one of the questions that has been asked (Why would you accept t

Re: [FRIAM] a further tangent

2012-03-28 Thread glen e. p. ropella
glen e. p. ropella wrote at 03/27/2012 10:57 AM: > I think > with that we might be able to reproduce Sturgeon's law ... and perhaps > even Godwin's law with 1 medium. Then we might be able to begin varying > the medium to discover which media were more susceptible to, at least, > those two pattern

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Nicholas Thompson wrote at 03/28/2012 09:38 AM: > I don't think we've been talking about psychological induction, here but > logical induction. And I think mathematical induction is actually a species > of Deduction. I am in a rush now, but I am putting in this marker in the > hope that others w

[FRIAM] Alan Lomax Archive .. Online

2012-03-28 Thread Owen Densmore
Alan Lomax huge archive now online for free streaming! http://research.culturalequity.org/home-audio.jsp Its more than the original southern folk and blues .. it has a huge international collection as well. Here's an example blues recording: http://goo.gl/8ko7r .. and here's the NPR story for mo

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Glen, I am out of my depth here, but ... I don't think we've been talking about psychological induction, here but logical induction. And I think mathematical induction is actually a species of Deduction. I am in a rush now, but I am putting in this marker in the hope that others will help out

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread glen e. p. ropella
Owen Densmore wrote at 03/28/2012 08:20 AM: > All: Did no one discuss the mathematics of induction .. the inductive > proof? Certainly that is accepted by us all, even tho anyone can make a > sequence of a set of N numbers, who's generator can provide any number > for its N+1th number. It is in t

Re: [FRIAM] Clarifying Induction Threads

2012-03-28 Thread Owen Densmore
Wow, Eric, thanks! Lovely gift this beautiful morning. And Nick, AFAIK, there is no such ThreadMagic software. But lets have a coffee over it. And in terms of the body and blood of Christ, that takes a bit and too can be done over coffee. But it basically has to do with The Wisdom of Metaphor

Re: [FRIAM] Just as a bye-the-way

2012-03-28 Thread Owen Densmore
Sorry for the late response, Russ, but thank you for your sanity. In these days of despising The Other, good manners are much appreciated. A Jesuit wrote a book about interviews he had with silicon valley engineers/scientists about religion and their attitudes towards it. (Talk about the lion's d

Re: [FRIAM] Taking things on faith

2012-03-28 Thread Douglas Roberts
Likewise, John, I appreciate your feedback. --Doug On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:29 AM, John Kennison wrote: > > > Thanks for your response, Doug. Unitarianism used to consider itself a > Christian religion, with the exception of its rejection of the trinity and > of the concept that Jesus is God.

Re: [FRIAM] Taking things on faith

2012-03-28 Thread John Kennison
Thanks for your response, Doug. Unitarianism used to consider itself a Christian religion, with the exception of its rejection of the trinity and of the concept that Jesus is God. The Christian flavoring now competes with humanist, Buddhist and pagan flavors. You can take your choice. In th

Re: [FRIAM] Taking things on faith

2012-03-28 Thread Douglas Roberts
I suppose if one felt a compelling need to subscribe to a Christian-flavored religion, one could do worse than the Unitarians. At least the Unitarians don't require knowledge of a hierarchy of secret handshakes which are necessary to gain access to those decreasing-diameter inner circles of the cl

[FRIAM] Taking things on faith

2012-03-28 Thread John Kennison
Sometimes religious leaders like to point out that intellectually, we need starting points, such as induction. So, faith in God, for example, is just one possible starting point. Other religious leaders say that faith is not an intellectual starting point, but an attitude that helps us be happy.