On 3/6/2012 2:12 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> You haven't been bitten by the storage layer or filesystem hackery
> bits which has caused filesystem corruption. :)
Ummm, I have, actually. I was one of the early adopters of SU+J and
complained loudly when it ate my /var/ for lunch. I also use a lot of
You haven't been bitten by the storage layer or filesystem hackery
bits which has caused filesystem corruption. :)
That said, FFS+SUJ has made recover-from-kernel-panic so much less
painful. Thankyou Jeffr and others!
What I tend to do is either run current on a VM or organise some
dedicated -cur
On 3/4/2012 2:04 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> 2012/3/3 Doug Barton :
>> On 03/02/2012 16:05, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>> Try breaking that cycle.
>>
>> ... one of the things I've been asking for years. :)
>>
>> Julian's right though, I think PC-BSD will help, but I still think that
>> committers should ru
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, H wrote:
> If you are curious about something, ask, right away ... clear and straight
I'm curious about when you will stop trolling one of the last few fora
on the internet where the SNR is actually high. This topic is
discussing how users can help Kip can make flo
Adam Strohl wrote:
> On 3/5/2012 15:00, Daniel Kalchev wrote:
>> I happen to share the opinion and the experience of Mark Linimon in
>> situations like this and yes, I do believe you have been rude here.
>> For no reason whatsoever.
>
> I agree. This "H" person has been hijacking threads over the
Daniel Kalchev wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 9:11 AM, H wrote:
>
>> I have the right, even the obligation to point out what I think is wrong
> So, you see yourself as speaking for others? You certainly do not speak for
> me! Never authorized you for this, never ever knew you actually exist. For
> v
On 3/5/2012 15:00, Daniel Kalchev wrote:
I happen to share the opinion and the experience of Mark Linimon in situations
like this and yes, I do believe you have been rude here. For no reason
whatsoever.
I agree. This "H" person has been hijacking threads over the last week
or so, and all of
On Mar 5, 2012, at 9:11 AM, H wrote:
> I have the right, even the obligation to point out what I think is wrong
So, you see yourself as speaking for others? You certainly do not speak for me!
Never authorized you for this, never ever knew you actually exist. For various
historical reasons, I d
Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 02:28:37AM -0300, H wrote:
>> because you don't care about what really matters, people, users, you
>> do not even know how to talk to them
> I've been criticized for saying this to a user before, but I'm going to
> repeat it here regardless of consequen
On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 02:28:37AM -0300, H wrote:
> because you don't care about what really matters, people, users, you
> do not even know how to talk to them
I've been criticized for saying this to a user before, but I'm going to
repeat it here regardless of consequences.
I'm sorry, you (as a
K. Macy wrote:
> I'm re-sending this portion of another mail as it will inevitably not
> be read by most readers by virtue of having been part of a long and
> digressive thread.
>
this is exactly one of this statements which makes users (normal people)
stay away
a person-person understand this as
2012/3/3 Doug Barton :
> On 03/02/2012 16:05, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>> Try breaking that cycle.
>
> ... one of the things I've been asking for years. :)
>
> Julian's right though, I think PC-BSD will help, but I still think that
> committers should run -current. I've asked privately for our committer
On 03/03/2012 04:32 PM, H wrote:
Bas Smeelen wrote:
/>/ away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It
/>/ should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent
/>/ versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull
/>/ off such a simple an
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 09:08:28PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Thanks mcl. I am off on other things for now but I will file PRs next time
> I come across something. In the past I have emailed the port maintainer and
> the answer is usually "yeah I know". After a few of those I thought filing
> PRs
Ian Lepore wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 09:09 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> > H wrote:
> > > ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome,
> > > was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen
> > > was a nightmare.
> >
> > I have never understood the po
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 03/03/2012 13:03, K. Macy wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
>>> On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote:
a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for
the state of FreeBSD. Simply disab
On 03/03/2012 13:03, K. Macy wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
>> On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote:
>>> a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for
>>> the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing
>>> functionality that doesn't wo
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote:
>> a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for
>> the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing
>> functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or
>> f
On 03/02/2012 16:05, Adrian Chadd wrote:
> Try breaking that cycle.
... one of the things I've been asking for years. :)
Julian's right though, I think PC-BSD will help, but I still think that
committers should run -current. I've asked privately for our committers
to go back to -current and then
On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote:
> a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for
> the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing
> functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or
> filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 03:44:42AM -0300, H wrote:
> nobody want to read, they want a desktop nothing else, something silly
> and easy to read email and write docs and surf on the net, listen to a
> CD, they need to put a cd into the drive, running install process,
> reboot, using, nothing else and
Thanks mcl. I am off on other things for now but I will file PRs next time
I come across something. In the past I have emailed the port maintainer and
the answer is usually "yeah I know". After a few of those I thought filing
PRs is a waste of time considering the maintainer doesn't seem to care.
> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation
!!
Something is wrong with this picture! If not, why not?!
___
freeb
o way with Doug Barton or ports per se, but
with his response as a representative instance of a behaviour which
bothers me, and, taken over time, is detrimental to the whole.
Back to the initial subject line: "flowtable usable or not"
It is possible to re-structure the routing code to have a
I'm re-sending this portion of another mail as it will inevitably not
be read by most readers by virtue of having been part of a long and
digressive thread.
subject line: "flowtable usable or not"
It is possible to re-structure the routing code to have a smaller
cache footprint /
On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 09:09 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> H wrote:
>
> > ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome,
> > was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen
> > was a nightmare.
>
> I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than
O. Hartmann wrote:
> Maybe the logic behind the dependency system need a refurbish? I feel
> lost when trying to look into the vast number of of *.mk files and
> having to figure out myself how they get involved when building some
> essential ports. Each "tweak" seems to go into those files undocum
On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 03:44 -0300, H wrote:
> Doug Barton wrote:
> > Just looking at the committers, of which we have over 300, only a
> > couple dozen at most have ever identified as actually using FreeBSD as
> > a desktop at my count. Taking the larger development community into
> > account I thi
2012/3/2 Julian Elischer :
> On 3/2/12 10:21 AM, Doug Barton wrote:
>>
>> On 03/02/2012 03:44, K. Macy wrote:
>
> not sure who wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct. However, I'm not sure the analogy is flawed. I am, to some
>>> degree, guilty of the same sin. I now run Ubuntu and have never had a
>>> single prob
On 3/3/2012 22:32, H wrote:
then you tell us today that ports is the best ever happened to you
It definitely is for me, and is a major reason why I love FreeBSD.
Yum/RPM/etc are not without their own issues, and definitely is not fool
proof nor 100% reliable in my experience.
Bas Smeelen wrote:
> />/ away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It
> />/ should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent
> />/ versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull
> />/ off such a simple ans straight forward, and basi
On 03/03/2012 10:18 AM, H wrote:
Bas Smeelen wrote:
On 03/02/2012 07:42 PM, H wrote:
Doug Barton wrote:
... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has
increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbe
On 03/03/2012 10:18 AM, H wrote:
you talk like the wind blows my friend ...
remembering your own most recent words in another occasion what
certainly do not match your last sentence ...
What you 'mis'quote further down was not my writing.
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/
on 03/03/2012 13:44 O. Hartmann said the following:
> Back to the topic of the initial posting:
>
> Where can I find documentation for the "idiot" about flowtable? I can
> switch this to "ON" in the kernel config on FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE as well as
> in FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT. But I can not find any
Back to the topic of the initial posting:
Where can I find documentation for the "idiot" about flowtable? I can
switch this to "ON" in the kernel config on FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE as well
as in FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT. But I can not find any hint what it is
supposed to do, what benefit it could provide or
On 03/03/12 07:44, H wrote:
> Doug Barton wrote:
>> [...] Sure,
>> our strength is servers, and that is not going to change.
I agree and disagree. Based upon the struggle with desktop usage and
focus on development, FreeBSD is de facto more server oriented. But in
comparison to several other non-
On 03/03/2012 17:09, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than
(perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a
Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac
desktop, I would use a Mac.
And if you want a FreeBSD desktop w
H wrote:
> ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome,
> was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen
> was a nightmare.
I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than
(perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a
Windows desktop, I
Bas Smeelen wrote:
> On 03/02/2012 07:42 PM, H wrote:
>> Doug Barton wrote:
>>> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
>>> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has
>>> increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbed over the wall
>>> b
Andriy Gapon wrote:
> on 03/03/2012 08:44 H said the following:
>> let's face some reality.
> Let's do that.
>
>> Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare
>> process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare.
> This has not been my experience (reality).
on 03/03/2012 08:44 H said the following:
> let's face some reality.
Let's do that.
> Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare
> process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare.
This has not been my experience (reality).
--
Andriy Gapon
_
On 3/2/12 10:21 AM, Doug Barton wrote:
On 03/02/2012 03:44, K. Macy wrote:
not sure who wrote:
Correct. However, I'm not sure the analogy is flawed. I am, to some
degree, guilty of the same sin. I now run Ubuntu and have never had a
single problem keeping my package system up date, in stark c
Doug Barton wrote:
> Just looking at the committers, of which we have over 300, only a
> couple dozen at most have ever identified as actually using FreeBSD as
> a desktop at my count. Taking the larger development community into
> account I think the numbers are a little better, but not much. Sure
I've had the same problem with wireless.
For some users, wireless works flawlessly.
For other users, it's completely unusable.
Trying to get any kind of useful feedback from people has been
impossible at best. I've even had FreeBSD developers, sitting in the
developers IRC channel, say wifi is s
on 03/03/2012 00:24 Doug Barton said the following:
> On 3/2/2012 1:27 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote:
>> on 02/03/2012 20:21 Doug Barton said the following:
>>> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
>>> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation.
>>
>> Do you car
On 3/2/2012 1:27 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote:
> on 02/03/2012 20:21 Doug Barton said the following:
>> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
>> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation.
>
> Do you care to back this up with facts?
You mean other than the ver
on 02/03/2012 20:21 Doug Barton said the following:
> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation.
Do you care to back this up with facts?
Or are you going beyond constructive in your [self-]criticism of FreeBSD [OS,
Doug Barton wrote:
> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has
> increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbed over the wall
> by developers who don't run systems that those changes affect. Tha
Yeah, I've been trying to prioritize some -exps that are blocking
other people right now. I know there's many more :-)
mcl
___
freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
To unsubscribe, send any mail
> No, I already pointed out the distinction between "new, experimental
> features;" and "essential components of the FreeBSD operating system."
> It's Ok for you to disagree with that distinction, or with its
> importance. But what you're suggesting is that if users don't help
> developers debug "c
On 03/02/2012 10:46, K. Macy wrote:
> You understand my point but then fail to or choose not to see how it
> applies to you when it creates problems for you personally.
No, I already pointed out the distinction between "new, experimental
features;" and "essential components of the FreeBSD operatin
>
> ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our
> developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has
> increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbed over the wall
> by developers who don't run systems that those changes affect. That's no
> way to r
On 02/03/2012 16:45, Mark Linimon wrote:
>> Other ports aren't supported on certain target architectures but the build
>> > doesn't tell you that until after it has run for a couple of hours
> Those are also bugs. Please send PRs for those, as well. I am particularly
> concerned about amd64 in t
On 03/02/2012 03:44, K. Macy wrote:
>> Apparently you've missed all the times that I've given that exact advice. :)
>>
>> But your analogy is severely flawed. Flowtable was an experimental
>> feature that theoretically might have increased performance for some
>> work flows, but turned out to be fa
On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 03:35:24PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> If you use [!i386] you are likely to find problems with ports and
> this gets amplified if you use nonstandard (read stuff not everybody uses)
> ports.
Fair enough.
> I have found several ports broken for many releases in a row.
The
Em Sex, Março 2, 2012 11:35, Nomen Nescio escreveu:
>> my experiences of slow and nightmarishly error-ridden port updates
>
> I have no intention to bash FreeBSD or ports but ports is certainly not
> without problems. It's annoying but not a reason to use Ubuntu! Get a
> grip, man! ;-)
>
>> I kn
> my experiences of slow and nightmarishly error-ridden port updates
I have no intention to bash FreeBSD or ports but ports is certainly not
without problems. It's annoying but not a reason to use Ubuntu! Get a grip,
man! ;-)
> I know there are users who have operated without such problems
I thi
> Apparently you've missed all the times that I've given that exact advice. :)
>
> But your analogy is severely flawed. Flowtable was an experimental
> feature that theoretically might have increased performance for some
> work flows, but turned out to be fatally flawed. The ports system is an
> es
On 03/01/2012 16:03, K. Macy wrote:
> I understand the switch. Uptime is important in any production
> network. However, it seems like it may have been too easy to turn it
> off because no one has made any effort to help me debug the issues. By
> analogy your guidance for ports usability problems
> Yes, that was part of it. On the web and db systems we had what I can
> only describe as "general wackiness" with systems suddenly becoming
> unreachable, etc. This was with a moderately complex network setup with
> a combination of different VLANs, multiple interfaces, etc. The FreeBSD
> routers
On 2/29/2012 6:01 PM, Steve Wills wrote:
> On 02/29/12 13:17, K. Macy wrote:
>> .
>>>
>>> I tried it, on both FreeBSD routers, web systems, and database
>>> servers; all on 8.2+. It still causes massive instability.
>>> Disabling the sysctl, and/or removing it from the kernel solved
>>> the proble
Inviato da iPad
Il giorno 01/mar/2012, alle ore 03:01, Steve Wills ha
scritto:
>
> The failure I experienced was with web servers running 8.0 behind a F5
> load balancer in an HA setup. Whenever the failover happened, the web
> servers would continue sending to the wrong MAC address, despite
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 02/29/12 13:17, K. Macy wrote:
> .
>>
>> I tried it, on both FreeBSD routers, web systems, and database
>> servers; all on 8.2+. It still causes massive instability.
>> Disabling the sysctl, and/or removing it from the kernel solved
>> the problem
.
>
> I tried it, on both FreeBSD routers, web systems, and database
> servers; all on 8.2+. It still causes massive instability. Disabling
> the sysctl, and/or removing it from the kernel solved the problems.
Routing I can believe, but I'm wondering how close attention you paid
to the workload. T
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 02/28/2012 15:08, Florian Smeets wrote:
> I talked to Kip Macy, who implemented flowtable, about this. He
> thinks that the problem was caused by inappropriate default setting
> of net.inet.ip.output_flowtable_size. This should have been fixed
>
On 28.02.12 23:14, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 2/28/2012 10:48 AM, Arnaud Lacombe wrote:
>> You will sure go really far with this kind of "It is broken ? Let's
>> not fix it and disable it instead" mentality, even more when coming
>> from a committer.
>>
>> As long as there will be these kind of commen
66 matches
Mail list logo
