At 03:59 PM 04/04/2001, Eric Lee Green wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Dennis wrote:
> > >* Dennis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [010403 18:17]:
>
>[stuff]
>
>Just a reminder: estinc.com is NOT the same domain name as etinc.com and
>the opinions of employees and management at Enhanced Software Technologies
>Inc
On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Dennis wrote:
> >* Dennis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [010403 18:17]:
[stuff]
Just a reminder: estinc.com is NOT the same domain name as etinc.com and
the opinions of employees and management at Enhanced Software Technologies
Inc. (estinc.com) have nothing to do with etinc.com .
Jus
On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Dennis wrote:
> This "consumer" attitude that you are doing a company a favor by
> buying something from them is completely misguided. Most companies are
> not some ISP or consultant struggling to pay its bills. WE are doing
> you a favor by making our technology available to
At 07:30 PM 04/03/2001, Rick Bradley wrote:
>* Dennis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [010403 18:17]:
> > >I am opposed to supporting individuals or corporations whose
> > >principals cannot manage simple disagreements with civility. It
> > >makes it clear what the consequences will be _to me_ should I, in
>
At 08:24 PM 04/03/2001, T. William Wells wrote:
>The message referred to below was sent by me in *PRIVATE E-MAIL*.
>Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted that private e-mail to this
>public forum. He did not have my permission to do so.
>
>(But, yes, I stand by my sentiments -- I just didn't want them
At 07:37 PM 04/03/2001, you wrote:
>| Ok, and unless we are totally desperate for cash (dont count on it) we wont
>| sell anything to you. Deal? You've just made a world class business
>| decision. Burning bridges with a vendor that you may someday need is
>| absolutely brilliant.
>
>Cool, can I p
Folks- I've said it before. Just ignore Dennis and let the topic die.
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t; From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Apr 3 20:12:43 EDT 2001
> Article: 12476 of local.freebsd.hackers:
> Path: twwells.com!newsgate!nowhere
> Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers
> From: Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Intel driver doc's Take 2.
> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:
| Ok, and unless we are totally desperate for cash (dont count on it) we wont
| sell anything to you. Deal? You've just made a world class business
| decision. Burning bridges with a vendor that you may someday need is
| absolutely brilliant.
Cool, can I please go on the list of people you won
* Dennis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [010403 18:17]:
> >I am opposed to supporting individuals or corporations whose
> >principals cannot manage simple disagreements with civility. It
> >makes it clear what the consequences will be _to me_ should I, in
> >my capacity as consultant, ever have a dispute wit
At 06:17 PM 04/03/2001, T. William Wells wrote:
> > > > Its not a "proprietary tree". I dont have time to clean it up
> > > > and submit patches.
> > >
> > >But you do seem to have time to keep arguing with people???
> > >I'm sure you'll have time to bitch again if 4.4 doesn't meet your needs
> >
Amen!
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wrt- Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>- he doesn't think much of people here, and is
abusive. Let's just move on and let him go find other folks to pick fights
with.
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[trying to move this off -hackers]
If memory serves me right, Dennis wrote:
> At 02:18 PM 03/31/2001, David O'Brien wrote:
> >On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 08:49:55PM +0100, Koster, K.J. wrote:
> > > Its not a "proprietary tree". I dont have time to clean it up
> > > and submit patches.
> >
> >But you
At 02:18 PM 03/31/2001, David O'Brien wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 08:49:55PM +0100, Koster, K.J. wrote:
> > Its not a "proprietary tree". I dont have time to clean it up
> > and submit patches.
>
>But you do seem to have time to keep arguing with people???
>I'm sure you'll have time to bitch a
On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 08:49:55PM +0100, Koster, K.J. wrote:
> Its not a "proprietary tree". I dont have time to clean it up
> and submit patches.
But you do seem to have time to keep arguing with people???
I'm sure you'll have time to bitch again if 4.4 doesn't meet your needs
because you didn
>
> Its not a "proprietary tree". I dont have time to clean it up
> and submit patches.
>
Please mail me your pci/if_fxp* just as they are and I wil clean up and
submit patches in your name.
Kees Jan
You are only young once,
but you
> At 12:50 PM 03/25/2001, Matthew Jacob wrote:
> >On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Dennis wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > If the if_wx driver sucks, why not fix it rather than trying to coerce a
> > > mega-companies with a deep political structure to change is policies?
> > > But if youre not going to maintain it, d
At 07:47 PM 03/24/2001, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2001, at 19:59, Dennis wrote:
>
> > the only thing more annoying the 2 people having a discussion is a third
> > person telling them to stop. Feel free not to read any more messages in
> > this thread.
>
>Feel free to read the list charter. You two ar
At 12:50 PM 03/25/2001, Matthew Jacob wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Dennis wrote:
>
> >
> > If the if_wx driver sucks, why not fix it rather than trying to coerce a
> > mega-companies with a deep political structure to change is policies?
> > But if youre not going to maintain it, dont do it at all
Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> >
> > > Let me just pipe in a bit. Compromise seems just like the kind of thing
> > > marketing or legal would want to do. The problem is that _we_ cannot
> > > compromise because one cannot write a "half-way there" driver. It
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Dennis wrote:
>
> If the if_wx driver sucks, why not fix it rather than trying to coerce a
> mega-companies with a deep political structure to change is policies?
> But if youre not going to maintain it, dont do it at all. You cant stick it to
> users by deciding later tha
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:11:54PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> Most drivers are written without full docs.
Feh. *EVERY* wpaul written Ethernet driver was written _with_ having the
full docs. wpaul will not write a driver otherwise.
--
-- David ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
GNU is Not Unix / Linux
On 24 Mar 2001, at 19:59, Dennis wrote:
> the only thing more annoying the 2 people having a discussion is a third
> person telling them to stop. Feel free not to read any more messages in
> this thread.
Feel free to read the list charter. You two are in a pissing contest
unreleated to this
Yes, I agree. We should delete the rest of this thread.
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Dennis wrote:
> At 04:07 PM 03/24/2001, Dan Langille wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2001, at 16:12, Dennis wrote:
> >
> > > And why does all of your email have that stupid attachment? Whats the
> > > matter, cant figure out how
At 04:07 PM 03/24/2001, Dan Langille wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2001, at 16:12, Dennis wrote:
>
> > And why does all of your email have that stupid attachment? Whats the
> > matter, cant figure out how to use an open-source mailer? :-)
>
>It's called a PGP signature.
>
>Could you two kids please take this
At 04:19 PM 03/24/2001, Will Andrews wrote:
>On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:12:34PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> > For your info, Bub, what makes the BSD license attractive is its usability
> > by commercial vendors, so maybe you should go play in Linuxland because
> > you are the one in the wrong camp, no
Matthew Jacob wrote:
> > 1 - Give a select group of people the docs under NDA
> > 2 - If there are any specific features Intel wants avoided, get them to
> > identify
> > them up front.
> > 3 - Let them write a driver that uses whatever features that are useful, wi
th
> > header fi
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 06:31:44PM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> 2) even if you have hardware with an "fxp" on board, adding a second
>supported card is cheap and easy -- nothing like having to put
>in a second video card;
Many, many U1-form-factor systems have two fxp on-board NICs.
No roo
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 04:12:34PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> For your info, Bub, what makes the BSD license attractive is its usability
> by commercial vendors, so maybe you should go play in Linuxland because
> you are the one in the wrong camp, not me. the ability to take code, fix it
> and inc
On 24 Mar 2001, at 16:12, Dennis wrote:
> And why does all of your email have that stupid attachment? Whats the
> matter, cant figure out how to use an open-source mailer? :-)
It's called a PGP signature.
Could you two kids please take this pissing contest off -hackers? Thanks.
--
Dan Langi
At 03:12 PM 03/24/2001, Will Andrews wrote:
>On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:11:54PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> > Most drivers are written without full docs. Intel supplied drivers for
> > linux are available for both eepro100 and gigabit cards. The info is out
> > there. Cobbling together the info to prod
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:11:54PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> Most drivers are written without full docs. Intel supplied drivers for
> linux are available for both eepro100 and gigabit cards. The info is out
> there. Cobbling together the info to produce a driver...THATS what open
> source is all a
At 02:45 PM 03/24/2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Richard Hodges wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the tip on the XL driver. Over the years, I have seen
> > many questions about which driver/card was the best, and all the
> > answers were pretty vague, or suggested that Intel had the e
> > If the if_wx driver sucks, why not fix it rather than trying to coerce a
> > mega-companies with a deep political structure to change is policies? But
> > if youre not going to maintain it, dont do it at all. You cant stick it to
> > users by deciding later that you dont want to support it an
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Richard Hodges wrote:
> Thanks for the tip on the XL driver. Over the years, I have seen
> many questions about which driver/card was the best, and all the
> answers were pretty vague, or suggested that Intel had the edge.
Yes. It's currently my understanding that t
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:49:14PM -0500, Dennis wrote:
> You use the term "our developers" as if you are some sort of closed cult.
They have something in common, and it's not a cult. It's called being
an "open source developer".
> I have NEVER complained about Intel not releasing full informa
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Richard Hodges wrote:
>
> > For many (most?) people that may be practical. But what about
> > those of us with a 1RU system using fxp on the motherboard and
> > NEED the single PCI slot for something else? I suspect that
> > t
At 01:33 PM 03/24/2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
>
> > I have read the thread for a while, and i wonder:
> >
> > why in the world someone should go through the effort and
> > responsibility of SIGNING THE NDA _and_ negotiating with Intel
> > for getting per
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Richard Hodges wrote:
> For many (most?) people that may be practical. But what about
> those of us with a 1RU system using fxp on the motherboard and
> NEED the single PCI slot for something else? I suspect that
> there are more of us than you might think.
Richard,
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> I have read the thread for a while, and i wonder:
>
> why in the world someone should go through the effort and
> responsibility of SIGNING THE NDA _and_ negotiating with Intel
> for getting permissions to redistribute the code ?
I made the ef
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> I have read the thread for a while, and i wonder:
>
> why in the world someone should go through the effort and
> responsibility of SIGNING THE NDA _and_ negotiating with Intel
> for getting permissions to redistribute the code ?
>
> I do not see how th
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Luigi Rizzo wrote:
> I have read the thread for a while, and i wonder:
>
> why in the world someone should go through the effort and
> responsibility of SIGNING THE NDA _and_ negotiating with Intel
> for getting permissions to redistribute the code ?
Because NDAs come as
I have read the thread for a while, and i wonder:
why in the world someone should go through the effort and
responsibility of SIGNING THE NDA _and_ negotiating with Intel
for getting permissions to redistribute the code ?
I do not see how this is doing any good to the project, given that
1) ther
> 1 - Give a select group of people the docs under NDA
> 2 - If there are any specific features Intel wants avoided, get them to
> identify
> them up front.
> 3 - Let them write a driver that uses whatever features that are useful, with
> header files that define the register bits etc
Peter Wemm wrote:
> However, there are lots of things that would never go into a FreeBSD driver.
> Things like the microcode interfaces for the wake-on-lan sequencer/filter,
> etc.
I´m trying for nearly a year now to get the docs from Intel for exactly this
feature because i need it for a client
Mike Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> >
> > > Let me just pipe in a bit. Compromise seems just like the kind of thing
> > > marketing or legal would want to do. The problem is that _we_ cannot
> > > compromise because one cannot write a "half-way there" driver. It's
> > restricted by the NDA, does your driver support the newer Intel
> > Pro/1000 F cards, which had been mentioned here a couple months
> I'm admittedly not familiar with Intels marketing nomenclature. But
> if by "1000 F", you mean the 82543/Livingood chip, then yes, this
> driver should work o
On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 04:08:39PM +0100, Olibert Obdachlos wrote:
> If I may ask, this binary driver, which cards does it support and
> which cards does it *not* support? Or if releasing that info is
> restricted by the NDA, does your driver support the newer Intel
> Pro/1000 F cards, which had
:: Hah, me neither. In fact, if you want to try out a binary of my
:: Intel GigE driver, it is at http://www.flugsvamp.com/~jlemon/fbsd/drivers
:: Jonathan
Wow, what I coincidence. I just did a search a couple days ago for
any recent developments, and earlier today spent a bit of time with
this
Jonathan Lemon wrote:
>
> In article
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> you write:
> > She need's specific information that we need that we cant get
> >unless we sign NDA's for the doc's so she can try and get them merged into
> >a reference product somewhere between the datasheet (worthless) and the
>
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
>
> > Let me just pipe in a bit. Compromise seems just like the kind of thing
> > marketing or legal would want to do. The problem is that _we_ cannot
> > compromise because one cannot write a "half-way there" driver. It's a
> > technical impossibili
On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:39:58AM -0800, Matthew Jacob wrote:
> >
> > I hate to say it, but anything that gets axed out of the manual basically
> > means that those features of the chip will not be used. I honestly don't
> > think that the marketer you talked to really understands this; I can't
>
> I hate to say it, but anything that gets axed out of the manual basically
> means that those features of the chip will not be used. I honestly don't
> think that the marketer you talked to really understands this; I can't
> for the life of me see how anything less than the programming manua
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > She need's specific information that we need that we cant get
> > unless we sign NDA's for the doc's so she can try and get them merged into
> > a reference product somewhere between the datasheet (worthless) and the
> > programming manual (NDA). I kno
In article
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
you write:
>
>btw- *I* have no problem with an NDA as long as it includes a rider that says
>what we could release as open source.
Hah, me neither. In fact, if you want to try out a binary of my
Intel GigE driver, it is at http://www.flugsvamp.com/~jlemon/fbsd/dri
btw- *I* have no problem with an NDA as long as it includes a rider that says
what we could release as open source.
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For what it's worth, I believe I'm still committed to work on the GigE driver.
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On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:
> Let me just pipe in a bit. Compromise seems just like the kind of thing
> marketing or legal would want to do. The problem is that _we_ cannot
> compromise because one cannot write a "half-way there" driver. It's a
> technical impossibility.
I agree
In article
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
you write:
> She need's specific information that we need that we cant get
>unless we sign NDA's for the doc's so she can try and get them merged into
>a reference product somewhere between the datasheet (worthless) and the
>programming manual (NDA).
Well, I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> She need's specific information that we need that we cant get
> unless we sign NDA's for the doc's so she can try and get them merged into
> a reference product somewhere between the datasheet (worthless) and the
> programming manual (NDA). I know this is not
Random idea from the peanut gallery...
Find someone who is NDA'd and knows both the programming manual and the
needs of the device driver. Have that person compose a list of those bits
of the manual most necessary for getting a working driver. This would
be an explicit list of figures, diagrams
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