On Tue, 15 May 2007, Tom Evans wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 11:23 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
Peter Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> [Linux package systems]
> > As far as I know, no
On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 11:23 -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> > Peter Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > [Linux package systems]
> > > > As far as I know, none of them handle updates
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> Peter Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > [Linux package systems]
> > > As far as I know, none of them handle updates from source at all. In
> > > fact, dealing with sources seems
Peter Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> [Linux package systems]
> > As far as I know, none of them handle updates from source at all. In
> > fact, dealing with sources seems to be a noticable weakness for them.
> This pretty much rules them out then.
It
On 2007-May-14 09:36:52 -0400, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Linux package systems]
>As far as I know, none of them handle updates from source at all. In
>fact, dealing with sources seems to be a noticable weakness for them.
This pretty much rules them out then.
--
Peter Jeremy
pgpner
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 05:48:38PM +0100, Tom Evans wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 10:25 +0200, 'Michel Talon' wrote:
> > Where is this huge increase in size?
> > Admittedly, i have not created indexes, etc.
> ^^
> > Compare this to the portsdb created by portu
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 05:26:45PM -0500, Rick C. Petty wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 06:06:37PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> >
> > Some of the fields can (and do) have unbounded length.
> >
> > Kris
>
> Where is that specified in the SQL spec? Or are you just saying that
> SQLite provides
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 06:06:37PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> Some of the fields can (and do) have unbounded length.
>
> Kris
Where is that specified in the SQL spec? Or are you just saying that
SQLite provides this flexibility?
-- Rick C. Petty
___
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 04:52:47PM -0500, Rick C. Petty wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 10:25:12AM +0200, 'Michel Talon' wrote:
> >
> > niobe% sqlite3 index.db
> > sqlite> CREATE TABLE index6 (
> > pkgname varchar(1),
> > path varchar(1),
> > prefix varchar(1),
> > comment varchar(1),
> > descr v
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 10:25:12AM +0200, 'Michel Talon' wrote:
>
> niobe% sqlite3 index.db
> sqlite> CREATE TABLE index6 (
> pkgname varchar(1),
> path varchar(1),
> prefix varchar(1),
> comment varchar(1),
> descr varchar(1),
> maintainer varchar(1),
> categories varchar(1),
> build_deps varchar
Andrew Pantyukhin wrote:
On 5/14/07, Sean Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I propose someone post on the wiki (http://wiki.freebsd.org/)
This might be relevant:
http://wiki.freebsd.org/Upak
___
freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.f
On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 10:25 +0200, 'Michel Talon' wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:33:23AM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> >
> > converted INDEX
> > into postgresSQL because I was playing around with making a message queue
> > based approach -
> > and it becomes BIG - The only table structure
On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 16:27 -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> FYI, "Using XML" and other buzzword-compliance is not currently on the
> table either. Let's all try to maintain some focus, OK?
>
> Kris
Clearly, the answer is to store XML inside SQLite, and use JavaBeans to
represent ports.
My bikeshe
On 5/14/07, Sean Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I propose someone post on the wiki (http://wiki.freebsd.org/)
This might be relevant:
http://wiki.freebsd.org/Upak
___
freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinf
g with sources seems to be a noticable weakness for them.
apt-get --build source
DES
I'm just going to interject here, I apologize if this is out of place.
I've been following the threads on SQLite in the base for ports and the
DPS initial ideas threads.
Kris has stated it
Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You may want to look at some other Linux distros. The packages system
> dates to about the same era as rpm/debs. The package system is much,
> much more manageable than them. On the other hand, most Linux distros
> have moved beyond those tools, to things li
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]@btinternet.com>, Thomas Sparrevohn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
typed:
> > There is a
> > reason why people have been discussing this for ten years without
> > getting anywhere.
> I suspect that is because that by and large the ports system works ;-) -
> Having
> Played around with a
Thomas Sparrevohn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That you table structure does not even full fill 1st normal form ;-) -
> You need to convert that into independent tables in order to get it on
> a reasonable normal form format
Yes, the dependency columns violate 1NF, but it's still pretty
impressiv
On Monday 14 May 2007 09:25:12 'Michel Talon' wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:33:23AM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> >
> > converted INDEX
> > into postgresSQL because I was playing around with making a message queue
> > based approach -
> > and it becomes BIG - The only table structure dif
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:33:23AM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
>
> converted INDEX
> into postgresSQL because I was playing around with making a message queue
> based approach -
> and it becomes BIG - The only table structure difference from the current
> format was that I
> was able to track
"Thomas Sparrevohn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > There is a reason why people have been discussing this for ten years
> > without getting anywhere.
> I suspect that is because that by and large the ports system works ;-)
Not really, it's because
> There is a
> reason why people have been discussing this for ten years without
> getting anywhere.
>
I suspect that is because that by and large the ports system works ;-) - Having
Played around with a couple of Linux distributions - my impression is that
"ports"
offers a much more manageable
Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You missed the point. The claim was "the sqlite database can be edited
> as easily as a pure textfile." I claim this is not always true. In
> particular, since someone has already mentioned using SQL for system
> config file instead of just the pkackage db,
Tom Judge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > Seriously, the FreeBSD package system is in great need of a profound
> > > overhaul, pretending it works well is complete denial of reality.
> > Perhaps, but I
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 10:01:46PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> > > One of the most obvious being that the sqlite database can be edited
> > > as easily as a pure text
>
> The second point is most important here. This whole thread exists
> because people consider the existing ports system to be too slow. How
> is using XML going to help with that at all?
>
But which part? The /var half of the equation - well that depends on the
operation -
Lookup? E.g
You got it
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-freebsd-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duane Whitty
> Sent: 13 May 2007 22:21
> To: Kris Kennaway
> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: DPS Initial Ideas
>
Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Seriously, the FreeBSD package system is in great need of a profound
overhaul, pretending it works well is complete denial of reality.
Perhaps, but I seriously doubt that you are the correct person for the
job.
DES
This is ex
> On Sunday 13 May 2007 23:00, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> > The on-disk format seems to be the wrong angle on the issue - The
> > current structure Works well - but it has a number of drawbacks -
> > however it no way clear whether that The answer is another
> > INDEX/storage structure
>
> When c
On Sunday 13 May 2007 23:00, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> The on-disk format seems to be the wrong angle on the issue - The
> current structure Works well - but it has a number of drawbacks -
> however it no way clear whether that The answer is another
> INDEX/storage structure
When coming up with
On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 10:39:46PM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Matthew Seaman wrote:
>
> > I can certainly add a check for duplicate PKGNAME and emit warnings. In
> > order to be sure of getting the canonical INDEX-N you'ld need a system
> > with no ports installed. Well, other than p5-FreeBS
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Matthew Seaman wrote:
> I can certainly add a check for duplicate PKGNAME and emit warnings. In
> order to be sure of getting the canonical INDEX-N you'ld need a system
> with no ports installed. Well, other than p5-FreeBSD-Portindex and
> depende
On Sunday, 13 May 2007 at 17:04:20 -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 10:00:46PM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
>
> > The answer is another INDEX/storage structure
>
> Great, I look forward to your detailed proposal.
>
> Kris
I believe this is closer to what Thomas meant
On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 10:00:46PM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> The answer is another INDEX/storage structure
Great, I look forward to your detailed proposal.
Kris
pgpx7V5GHDm4B.pgp
Description: PGP signature
> FYI, "Using XML" and other buzzword-compliance is not currently on the
> table either. Let's all try to maintain some focus, OK?
>
Well - I now heard the SQL buzzword quite a bit ;-) - but whatever - No
matter
what angle I take on the register/make INDEX timing issues they are
insignificant
On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 09:21:56PM +0100, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> Well - Naturally if the only index format was based upon XML it would not be
> very practical -
> However XML currently seems to take the lead when the talk is on portability
> as a data format
> and it is very easy to convert to
Sparrevohn; Michel Talon
> Subject: Re: DPS Initial Ideas
>
> On Sunday 13 May 2007 13:58, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> > Using XML for INDEX are a very good idea mainly because it allows
> > "ports" to interface in an easy way to external tools - e.g. java
> > fronte
On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 06:25:19PM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Matthew Seaman wrote:
>
> > Extra whitespace I can fix for you -- it's just the COMMENT field which
> > is affected IIRC. I just copy the string exactly as shown in the port's
> > Makefile. make index collapses multiple whitespace
On Sunday 13 May 2007 13:58, Thomas Sparrevohn wrote:
> Using XML for INDEX are a very good idea mainly because it allows
> "ports" to interface in an easy way to external tools - e.g. java
> frontends - web browsers etc, etc. However there are drawbacks - Yet
> I feel that the discussion about wha
Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Seriously, the FreeBSD package system is in great need of a profound
> overhaul, pretending it works well is complete denial of reality.
Perhaps, but I seriously doubt that you are the correct person for the
job.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROT
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Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Extra whitespace I can fix for you -- it's just the COMMENT field which
> is affected IIRC. I just copy the string exactly as shown in the port's
> Makefile. make index collapses multiple whitespace to single. As you say,
On Sunday 13 May 2007 11:37:57 Peter Jeremy wrote:
>
> The options I can see are:
> - Ignore the existence of INDEX - which makes computing dependencies
> very time consuming
> - Fully rebuild INDEX via "make describe" whenever you update any ports
> - this takes of the order of an hour
> - F
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Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 08:46:17AM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>> Kris Kennaway wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is that maintaining the INDEX is expensive and/or tricky.
>>> p5-FreeBSD-Portindex comes close but seems to have some wr
On 2007-May-12 23:44:22 +0200, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Really i don't think at all this way. I think that *perhaps* SQLite
>may marginally better than a Berkeley database for solving part of the
>problem, not much more. What i reacted to, was the conservatism which
>pervades the c
On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 08:46:17AM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> > The problem is that maintaining the INDEX is expensive and/or tricky.
> > p5-FreeBSD-Portindex comes close but seems to have some wrinkles.
>
> If you'ld just tell me what you perceive the wrinkles to be,
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Kris Kennaway wrote:
> The problem is that maintaining the INDEX is expensive and/or tricky.
> p5-FreeBSD-Portindex comes close but seems to have some wrinkles.
If you'ld just tell me what you perceive the wrinkles to be, then I'd
have a fighting c
Kris Kennaway wrote:
> It seems to me that you do not appreciate the reasons behind this
> conservatism. A very important one is that we have two students who
> have committed to spending their summer working on improving the
> existing pkg_tools in ways that will solve some of the real problems
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 11:44:22PM +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
> On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 03:33:02PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 11:09:35AM +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
> >
> > > Seriously, the FreeBSD package
> > > system is in great need of a profound overhaul, pretending
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 03:33:02PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 11:09:35AM +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
>
> > Seriously, the FreeBSD package
> > system is in great need of a profound overhaul, pretending it works well
> > is complete denial of reality. I hope that young peop
Seriously, the FreeBSD package system is in great need of a profound
overhaul, pretending it works well is complete denial of reality. I
hope that young people working on summer code projects will infuse
*new* ideas, and not spend their vacations polishing inadequate tools.
Hmm? Works fine f
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 11:25:58PM +0200, Ivan Voras wrote:
> Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> > First figure out what specific problems need to be solved, then figure
> > out how to solve them, not the other way around. So far I have seen
> > little discussion of how SQLite is necessary and sufficient f
Kris Kennaway wrote:
> First figure out what specific problems need to be solved, then figure
> out how to solve them, not the other way around. So far I have seen
> little discussion of how SQLite is necessary and sufficient for fixing
> fundamental issues. The argument in favour of SQL seems t
David Naylor wrote:
>
> I am looking at a hybrid approach to storing the package metadata, a
> combination of SQLite and compressed text files. I am hoping to create a
> situation where if either gets corrupted it can be created from the other.
... throwing away transaction safety, as it me
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 11:09:35AM +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
> Seriously, the FreeBSD package
> system is in great need of a profound overhaul, pretending it works well
> is complete denial of reality. I hope that young people working on
> summer code projects will infuse *new* ideas, and not sp
On 2007-May-12 11:09:35 +0200, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>- first i don't suppose sqlite3 is busted, since i suppose it is in the
> base system and it works by definition.
It can happen that base system utilities become unusable for various
reasons: Maybe an installworld went wrong
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 10:01:46PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> > One of the most obvious being that the sqlite database can be edited
> > as easily as a pure textfile using the sqlite3 program
>
> Huh? They can? With a pure textfile,
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:29:24PM -0300, Duane Whitty wrote:
> Is it hoped / planned that storing the metadata in a berkeley DB
> database will help with the parallelization of package building?
That's somewhat orthogonal: the problem there is mutual exclusion and
job ordering.
> In your opinio
On Friday, 11 May 2007 at 17:28:47 -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:02:31PM +0200, David Naylor wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thank you all for your responses, it has given me much to think about. I
> > guess there is consenses that there is room for improvement in the current
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed:
> One of the most obvious being that the sqlite database can be edited
> as easily as a pure textfile using the sqlite3 program
Huh? They can? With a pure textfile, if vi is busted, I can use ed. If
ed is also busted, I can use sed. W
Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Kris Kennaway explained in 4 points why a proposal to introduce a new
> package system is doomed to failure.
What the hell? You're making like any effort to improve the packaging
system is doomed to failure without SQLite.
Before you even go in to any
Kris Kennaway explained in 4 points why a proposal to introduce a new
package system is doomed to failure.
In particular he says:
> "I think your current proposal falls short on points 2) and 3). In
> particular, I don't see where SQLite is necessary to solve any
> problems we are currently facin
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:02:31PM +0200, David Naylor wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you all for your responses, it has given me much to think about. I
> guess there is consenses that there is room for improvement in the current
> pkg system. Attached are some of my initial ideas about what is requir
Hi,
Thank you all for your responses, it has given me much to think about. I
guess there is consenses that there is room for improvement in the current
pkg system. Attached are some of my initial ideas about what is required and
expected in any (and all future) package systems.
Since I am
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