Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Da Rock
On 01/20/12 09:13, John Kozubik wrote: On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dieter BSD wrote: John writes: - EOL 7 - mark 8 as legacy - mark 9 as the _only_ production release - release 10.0 in January 2017 Until a few days ago 8 was the latest, shinest release. So you want to suddenly demote it all the w

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Mike Meyer
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:07:43 +0100 vermaden wrote: > I got these maintainers email addresses from http://freshports.org > page, are they up-to-date there? Maybe that is the problem and > that my mails jest went to /dev/null ... Just checking for sure. I dunno. If you want the maintainer as of you

Re: Getting PRs fixed

2012-01-19 Thread Eitan Adler
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Dieter BSD wrote: > One problem is PRs that are closed without being fixed. Some of these > are legitimate (dups, submitter error, already fixed in newer release, ...) > but some shouldn't have been closed. Please let me know which ones shouldn't have been closed.

Re: Giant lock gone? (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Greg 'groggy' Lehey
On Wednesday, 18 January 2012 at 19:58:19 -0500, Dieter BSD wrote: >> The original goal for 5.0 was to completely remove the Giant lock (and >> do other cool SMP-related stuff). Eventually it was realized that this >> was too big a goal to fully accomplish in 5.0 (albeit too late in the >> process)

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread John Kozubik
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Dieter BSD wrote: John writes: - EOL 7 - mark 8 as legacy - mark 9 as the _only_ production release - release 10.0 in January 2017 Until a few days ago 8 was the latest, shinest release. So you want to suddenly demote it all the way down to legacy? I thought the goal wa

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Adrian Chadd
.. and people _do_ realise that this is all mostly driven by volunteers, right? The companies/individuals that _could_ run this kind of thing do it internally. So you're left with volunteers doing the public releases instead of the vendors who are asking for it. Honestly, I think the re@ and port

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread John Kozubik
Hi Doug, On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Doug Barton wrote: What I've proposed instead is a new major release every 2 1/2 years, where the new release coincides with the EOL of the oldest production release. That way we have a 5-year cycle of support for each major branch, and no more than 2 production b

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Doug Barton
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, John Kozubik wrote: Hi Doug, On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 01/18/2012 11:46, John Kozubik wrote: - mark 9 as the _only_ production release While I understand your motivation, I am not sure this is a workable goal when combined with the goal that others ha

Re: Giant lock gone?

2012-01-19 Thread Dieter BSD
>>> The original goal for 5.0 was to completely remove the Giant lock (and >>> do other cool SMP-related stuff). Eventually it was realized that this >>> was too big a goal to fully accomplish in 5.0 (albeit too late in the >>> process) and the goal was changed to do the basic framework for the new

Re: Getting PRs fixed

2012-01-19 Thread Dieter BSD
Igor writes: > You mean something like: http://people.freebsd.org/~edwin/gnats/ ? Daniel writes: > http://www.oook.cz/bsd/prstats/ Yes, something like these. Stephen writes: > You should get extra points for difficult PR's. One way to measure this > would be to give more points for fixing older

USENIX WebApps '12 Submission Deadline Approaching

2012-01-19 Thread Lionel Garth Jones
I'm writing to remind you that the submission deadline for the 3rd USENIX Conference on Web Application Development (WebApps '12) is approaching. Please submit all work by January 23, 2012, 11:59 p.m. http://www.usenix.org/webapps12/cfpb Like the inaugural WebApps '10 and '11, WebApps '12 seeks t

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread John Kozubik
Hi Doug, On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 01/18/2012 11:46, John Kozubik wrote: - mark 9 as the _only_ production release While I understand your motivation, I am not sure this is a workable goal when combined with the goal that others have expressed of longer timelines for the su

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Igor Mozolevsky
On 19 January 2012 16:35, Robert Huff wrote: > > Igor Mozolevsky writes: > >>  > Wouldn't this discourage even more people from helping? >> >>  Would this not separate people who have a genuine interest in >>  contributing from "tinker-monkeys"? > >        Did I miss a previous definition of "tink

Re: Getting PRs fixed (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Igor Mozolevsky
On 19 January 2012 11:55, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Igor Mozolevsky wrote: >> On 19 January 2012 00:57, Dieter BSD wrote: >> >> > Idea 2: Give it status. Set up a web page with PR fixing stats >> > >> > name/handle..total PRs fixed...fixed in last 12 months...average fixed/year >> > Sheldon..

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Adrian Chadd
On 19 January 2012 09:47, Mark Saad wrote: > I just want to chime in here, what is the deal with killing off a > potential 7.5-RELEASE ? Having a few 7.3-RELEASE and 7.4-RELEASE > servers I would like to see a 7.5-RELEASE that is supported to 2015 > to prevent another major upgrade cycle . Ther

Re: intent of tab-completion in /bin/sh in 9.0

2012-01-19 Thread Jilles Tjoelker
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 08:46:18PM -0500, Matthew Story wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jilles Tjoelker wrote: > > POSIX itself has gradually adopted ksh features, so seeing more of them > > in future is not unlikely. Most of the new language features in 9.0 are > > either from POSIX.1-2

RE: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Devin Teske
> -Original Message- > From: owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > hack...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Robert Huff > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:35 AM > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecyc

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Mark Saad
I just want to chime in here, what is the deal with killing off a potential 7.5-RELEASE ? Having a few 7.3-RELEASE and 7.4-RELEASE servers I would like to see a 7.5-RELEASE that is supported to 2015 to prevent another major upgrade cycle . There are still freebsd developers working on 7-STABLE an

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Robert Huff
Igor Mozolevsky writes: > > Wouldn't this discourage even more people from helping? > > Would this not separate people who have a genuine interest in > contributing from "tinker-monkeys"? Did I miss a previous definition of "tinker-monkey"? Robert H

Re: Getting PRs fixed (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Jason Hellenthal
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 06:23:00AM +, Pegasus Mc Cleaft wrote: > > > > > Idea 1: Fix 'n' PRs, get a tee-shirt, fridge magnet, plush daemon, ... > > > > > > > > Idea 2: Give it status. Set up a web page with PR fixing stats > > > > > > > > name/handle..total PRs fixed...fixed in last 12 mon

Re: Tools to calculate time(or cpucycles) in mutex inside kernel ?

2012-01-19 Thread Andriy Gapon
on 19/01/2012 15:21 Andrey Smagin said the following: > Hi ALL. > > Have FreeBSD internal time counters for calculate subj ? > How determine wich mutexes wait lot of time ? LOCK_PROFILING(9) looks like what you want. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hacker

Tools to calculate time(or cpucycles) in mutex inside kernel ?

2012-01-19 Thread Andrey Smagin
Hi ALL. Have FreeBSD internal time counters for calculate subj ? How determine wich mutexes wait lot of time ? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "free

Re: intent of tab-completion in /bin/sh in 9.0

2012-01-19 Thread Matthew Story
forgot to reply-to list ... On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Matthew Story wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > [...snip] > >> It would be nice if the completion made it down to 8.X. >> > > Agreed, on my 9.0 install, I have actually forgone my typical bash > instal

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Daniel Gerzo
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:54:44 -0800, Tim Kientzle wrote: On Jan 18, 2012, at 2:44 AM, Robert Watson wrote: ... perhaps what is really called for is breaking out our .0 release engineering entirely from .x engineering, with freebsd-update being in the latter. This is a great idea! In particu

Re: Getting PRs fixed (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Daniel Gerzo
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:57:33 -0500, Dieter BSD wrote: Andriy writes: And dealing with PRs is not always exciting. Neither is brushing your teeth or cleaning the kitchen, but most of us manage to do them at least occasionally. Part of being a grown up. Instead of looking for a stick to hold

Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle

2012-01-19 Thread Alexander Leidinger
Hi, yesterday I wrote some words in my how we could put the power how long a branch lives a little bit more into he hands of the users. It's available at http://www.leidinger.net/blog/ and also has some sentences how we could improve our knowledge about what bugs our users the most. Maybe it g

Re: Giant lock gone? (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Mark Linimon
(sorry to reply to Doug but not Dieter, but I have already deleted the prior email) > On 01/18/2012 16:58, Dieter BSD wrote: > So you are saying that the Giant lock was completely removed in 7.0? It was completely removed from the network stack. That was the missing qualifier in his sentence. S

Re: Getting PRs fixed (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Julian H. Stacey
Igor Mozolevsky wrote: > On 19 January 2012 00:57, Dieter BSD wrote: > > > Idea 2: Give it status. Set up a web page with PR fixing stats > > > > name/handle..total PRs fixed...fixed in last 12 months...average fixed/year > > Sheldon..150...9072 > > Leonard

Re: Giant lock gone? (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Doug Barton
On 01/18/2012 16:58, Dieter BSD wrote: >> The original goal for 5.0 was to completely remove the Giant lock (and >> do other cool SMP-related stuff). Eventually it was realized that this >> was too big a goal to fully accomplish in 5.0 (albeit too late in the >> process) and the goal was changed to

Re: Getting PRs fixed (was: Re: ...focus, longevity, and lifecycle)

2012-01-19 Thread Gabor Kovesdan
On 2012.01.19. 3:06, Igor Mozolevsky wrote: You mean something like:http://people.freebsd.org/~edwin/gnats/ ? It is not up to date. I have not closed too many PRs in the last 3 months and I'm still on the top PR closers list. Gabor ___ freebsd-hacke