Re: [fpc-devel] FPDoc and inherited methods

2011-09-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/11/2011 07:33 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: No Latex support here (Win7) Virtual Box is your friend :-) . -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 12:18 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I'd add another 100€ for reasonable debugging support in Lazarus :-) Could you generate a wish-List ? -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 12:10 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: - watchpoints. break when data at memory address changed. Very handy to debug those procedural programs that loves to use global variables. MSEide supports this (but it is actually a GDB feature) Ooops. (Without hardware support) This

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 01:15 PM, Martin Schreiber wrote: gdb uses hardware watchpoint support if available. That seems hard to beat when doing a new multi-arch debugger -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freep

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 11:16 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: - watchpoints. break when data at memory address changed. I've seen applications crawl when such a feature was used :-( This is bound to happen unless the CPU provides support for this. (I have no idea which of the CPUs supported by FPC ha

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 11:51 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: ) debugger, I only want *better* high-level (language specific) support in Lazarus. Finally I want to debug applications, not an new debugger with different behaviour and restrictions on every platform ;-) A multi-arch compiler should come with

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/12/2011 03:23 PM, r...@rdos.net wrote: that does not have a modern GUI integrated into it, Why should a debugger have it's own GUI ? IMHO it should be used integrated in an IDE, so tit should have a decent API to be used by an IDE. So providing a command line interface (if started sitt

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 11:06 AM, Jonas Maebe wrote: GDB is built for supporting multiple languages. E.g., its ADA support has been much better than its C++ support for a long time (although C++ support is getting fairly good nowadays too). Unfortunately it seems to be hard (or close to impossible) to w

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 01:22 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote: Don't insult people when you clearly don't have any experience whatsoever in working with them. Sorry if I sounded impolite. I did not at all mean to insult them. On the contrary I praise them for their exceptional work ! I only wanted to state that

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 02:09 PM, Joost van der Sluis wrote: Very well said ! Thanks, -Michael (who does a lot more ANSI C than Pascal, as this is necessary with embedded controllers.) ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.fre

Re: [fpc-devel] Calling methods from within gdb

2011-09-13 Thread Michael Schnell
Sounds good ! Thanks, -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 04:52 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: It's not the CPU, it's more the MMU which can help in finding changed (global) variables. AFAIK, the MMU can not work in byte addresses but just with much bigger blocks of data. So it does not seem to help with finding a write access to a de

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 02:53 PM, Joost van der Sluis wrote: You do know that GDB does have a Pascal extension, right? IMHO, if we really can work with the gdb team on feeding the necessary Object-Pascal specific add-ons into gdb, creating a new debugger from scratch does not make any sense at all. -Mi

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/13/2011 04:59 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: IMO you're addressing the wrong audience. Most things, beyond breakpoint handling, stepping and memory read/writes, can be done outside the debugger. Such external code is not bound to debugger support, and can use language specific informat

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 08:50 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: All Linux distributions that I know use utf-8 Android uses utf-8 Meego uses utf-8 AFAIK, the EXT system does not care about the code the file-name byte-arrays are done in. only 0x00 (end of name) and '\' are interpreted. -Michael ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 01:01 PM, Michael Schnell wrote: AFAIK, the EXT system does not care about the code the file-name byte-arrays are done in. only 0x00 (end of name) and '\' are interpreted. Sorry, (typing too fast again) Only 0x00 (end of name) and '/' are interpreted

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 10:51 AM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: In this case then for sure we cannot only have file routines only in UTF-16, because that would make it impossible to identify many files in Linux... Who says that file names are supposed to be human readable and this done in some charac

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 11:05 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: First and for all. Backwards compat dropping is not going to happen. It already has and supposedly can't be avoided. Take a look of what Lazarus was forced to make out of the identity of ANSIString and UTF8String seemingly forced by FPC. e.g.:

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-14 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 01:58 PM, Sven Barth wrote: But the debugger can ask the OS to write protect a page or to enable a page guard (which triggers on write access) and then the corresponding signal/exception can be catched. This reduces the checks necessary from the complete process memory down to o

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 09:00 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Every (reasonable) OS provides such features in its debug API. Available support depends on the actual hardware, of course. Can you point us to a description (Win XP, Win 7, Linux ?) Thanks, -Michael ___

Re: [fpc-devel] bounty: FPC based debugger

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 08:47 PM, dmitry boyarintsev wrote: That's true. The only thing concerns me about that, is there's no really a standard in GDB (i can be wrong). This of course would be a necessary condition for working with the gdb team. Also, IRC, Apple forked gdb (as well other gnu-tools) to

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 05:02 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: The NT WinAPI (not 9x) *implements* everything in the Wide (UTF-16) routines without reference-counting: Yak ! -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freep

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 05:02 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: The NT filesystems store names in UTF-16, while Unix filesystems store UTF-8. there are lots of file systems in Linux. They can work differently. i.e. FAT works case insensitive while ext* works cases sensitive. IMHO ext completely ignores

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 05:02 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: But let's not forget the user! Many users still want simple string handling, with direct mapping between logical and physical chars (SBCS). This is why new Delphi versions provide "New Strings" that know about thee coding their content is

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 05:19 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Can you specify, *which* strings ever *require* platform specific encoding? If not strings, Chars do: MyString := 'Öse'; MyChar := MyString[1]; -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@list

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 07:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Unicode users have no use for an char type, instead they have to use substrings for every logical character. Yep. The problem is that a "normal" programmer (especially a beginner) does not know (and does not want to know, and IMHO should not

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 09:57 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: What the hell has "experience" got to do with the preference between UTF-8 and UTF-16? In fact users want to deal with "decently coded characters" and not with "cryptic bytes some of which together are representing a character". (e.g. when d

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 10:39 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: MyChar := UTF8Copy(MyString, 1, 1); The above example is safe, Of course. But generations of Pascal programmers have been trained to do MyChar := MyString[1]; So it would at least be candid to abolish the String[i] notation as a syntax fe

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 10:43 AM, cobines wrote: MyChar := MyString[1] appropriate function retrieves first unicode character, regardless of encoding. MyChar is an 8 bit thingy and thus is not even able to hold a Unicode 'ä' (in what ever UTF). -Michael ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 11:08 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: +1 on both counts. Hoping for complex things to automatically be solved by just ignoring the complexity usually leads into hell. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org htt

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 11:06 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: and to show you AGAIN how flawed your "direct index access to a character" example is. It's not "my" intend to use it. I'll never use it as I do know that it is bound to create problems. But it is what generations of pascal programmers are train

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/14/2011 07:24 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Unicode users have no use for an char type, instead they have to use substrings for every logical character. "Unicode" is 32 Bis and allowing for (nearly) any supported character. So a 32 Bit UnicodeCharacter in fact is very viable. -Michael

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 11:40 AM, cobines wrote: Such people should retrain if they want to switch to Unicode using some instructions how to convert your application. In fact they don't know about Unicode and thus don't even know that they need training :-) . If they do not want, they should stay with A

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 11:43 AM, Martin wrote: Which imho makes utf8 far more preferable than utf16 in UTF8 the error is bound to happen ROFL. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fp

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 12:41 PM, cobines wrote: I don't know if in Delphi you can use just Ansi, Delphi is a completely different matter as (by default) old versions use ANSI and new versions use Unicode in NewDelphiStrins with dynamic encoding. -Michael ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-15 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 01:26 PM, cobines wrote: I see. Then people switching from Delphi/Ansi to Lazarus/UTF-8 will have problems if they are not aware they have to adjust their applications. Switching from Lazarus-pre-Unicode, Delphi pre-Unicode and Delphi-Unicode will cause this problems (for not comp

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/16/2011 07:33 AM, cobines wrote: I understand that argument is not "easier to learn" but "easier to transition to from Ansi if you don't care to learn". ANSI means: each element you get is a character. With Unicode this is only (close to) true when using a 32 Bit encoding. When using 8

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 07:39 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Only when an application must *interpret* strings in foreign languages, With UTF-8 German is such a foreign language :( -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://list

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 09:07 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Well, I think the RTL should introduce a TStringsUTF8 at the very least. and/or (better ?!? ) introduce a basic string type name TStringUTF8. I understand that cpstrnew is at least considered on the long run. Is migrating to multiple s

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/16/2011 07:36 AM, cobines wrote: Currently UTF8String is just an alias for AnsiString, Which obviously is bound to produce a lot of confusion UTF-8 code in a thing explicitly called "ANSIString" ??? -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-deve

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 09:01 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: FPC also allows to use Complex values - but nobody is forced to use such numbers German (and French end, ...) Lazarus programmers are Forced to deal with Unicode if the accept user input. (Newer versions of) Lazarus can't be set to work in

Re: [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-16 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/15/2011 09:07 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: Well, I think the RTL should introduce a TStringsUTF8 at the very least. and/or (better ?!? ) introduce a basic string type name TStringUTF8. I understand that cpstrnew is at least considered on the long run. Is migrating to multiple s

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-19 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/19/2011 11:13 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: No. IMHO the point has always been to find a sweet spot. Delphi is not Visual Basic. Delphi is native and fast. Isn't this nicely provided by "new Strings" ? If you are naive and just use them as you have been acquainted to at ANSI times, your

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-19 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/18/2011 05:52 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote: And of course, finally, there is the matter with Delphi compatibility. This can't even be discussed regarding Unicode programming as long as FPC does not have "new Strings". (AFAIK there even are or have been discussions about not doing new s

Re: RE : [fpc-devel] Unicode support (yet again)

2011-09-19 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/18/2011 06:49 PM, DaWorm wrote: But isn't it O(n^2) only when actually using unicode strings? Allowing the compiler or library decide _if_ this is a Unicode string would require either a dedicated sting types for each encoding or "New Strings" with programmable encoding. -Michael __

Re: [fpc-devel] New FPC Target: AROS

2011-09-26 Thread Michael Schnell
On 08/05/2011 09:47 PM, Marcus Sackrow wrote: ... Hi Marcus,. Any progress ? I understand that for Amiga you need an 68 K (cross compiler) version of FPC. I'd be interested in same, as well. Any progress here? ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-dev

Re: [fpc-devel] New FPC Target: AROS

2011-09-26 Thread Michael Schnell
On 09/26/2011 03:21 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Pre-4.x versions of AmigaOS supported 68k, newer ones support only PowerPC. Also AROS seems to be mainly based on x86 and PowerPC (a port to 68k exists though). So 68k does not seem to be necessary. So I seem to be out of luck :( :) -Michael ___

Re: [fpc-devel] utf-8 package in Free Pascal

2011-10-04 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/03/2011 11:41 AM, michael.vancann...@wisa.be wrote: Currently, hard work is being put in the unicode string and codepage string routines in the RTL. Do I understand correctly that this is the "New String" string handling (to be optionally, by default or exclusively used) ? Do I und

Re: [fpc-devel] utf-8 package in Free Pascal

2011-10-04 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/04/2011 10:59 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Yes. Each string will have a codepage identifier associated with it. if, during an assign operation, a difference exists, a conversion will occur. (there are of course some exceptions) GREAT ! I wonder when Lazarus will be able to follow an

Re: [fpc-devel] utf-8 package in Free Pascal

2011-10-04 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/04/2011 11:59 AM, Sven Barth wrote: The earliest point is when the next big release after 2.6 is released (note: I don't mean 2.6.x here, more a 2.8). As 2.6 is currently prepared you can estimate how long that will take. I see. ;-) Unfortunately Delphi is way ahead on this behalf, b

Re: [fpc-devel] utf-8 package in Free Pascal

2011-10-04 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/04/2011 01:02 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I wonder when Lazarus will be able to follow and use this string type for the complete library. The LCL will use one unique encoding, most probably UTF-8 as the only losless Unicode representation. This means that strings with different e

Re: [fpc-devel] fpc trunk (today) just stops with "Fatal: Compilation aborted"

2011-10-10 Thread Michael Schnell
I understand that Lazarus will not be able to run with the "NewString" version of FPC. Semmingly it can't even be compiled. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

Re: [fpc-devel] fpc trunk (today) just stops with "Fatal: Compilation aborted"

2011-10-10 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/10/2011 10:35 AM, Paul Ishenin wrote: Strange logic. How you decided that if something does not do now it will not be able to do the same at future. I understand that the type "String" will change it's behavior (please correct me if I'm wrong). I understand that Lazarus might use assumpt

Re: [fpc-devel] new strings, rawbyte type, but what about "raw" encoding

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
I suppose there is a way to just set the encoding of a new string. This should not affect the stored bytes (or words or DWords). -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/10/2011 10:11 PM, Luiz Americo Pereira Camara wrote: 2- It should have (dont know if currently has) a compiler switch to change the default code page to UTF8 or whatever, so all variables with type String will map to UTF8String. Why ? I feel, the LCL code should only be codepage aware

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/10/2011 11:11 PM, Martin wrote: But that will always just push the issue to another location. Somewhere the change from string to utf8string must be made. ??? The "new string" paradigm is all about changing from utf8string (and other such types) to string. Isn't it ? The big decision wa

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 12:23 AM, Martin wrote: Utf8ToLower is, (and should) be declared expecting a Utf8String. Why should a function Utf8ToLower be used (or even be defined for normal use) ? With dynamically encoded Strings "ToLower" should work for any encoding. -Michael _

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 08:52 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: It does *not* help, because SetCodePage does a string *conversion*, when it really changes the encoding. That of course does make sense. OTOH, there should (must) be a function that forces the encoding to some setting without looking at the

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 09:17 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: IMO Lazarus (and FPC) should follow the Delphi way, with strictly separate Unicode and pre-Unicode versions. Nobody can expect that new VCL (Unicode) components can be back-ported to Ansi versions. As right now the current (Unicode aware) L

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 07:33 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I'd use another type, e.g. LCLstring, which can be set independently from any other automatisms. While using a "private" string type "just in case" or for flexibility in a work in progress, might be a good idea, the goal should be to every

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 07:33 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Concrete types are required when strings are manipulated (parsed...), and the implementation assumes a certain encoding. Why do you think so. when parsing, a 32 bit Unicode character can be extracted from a new string with any (not raw) encod

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 11:20 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Michael Schnell schrieb: Why should a function Utf8ToLower be used (or even be defined for normal use) ? Because it expects and UTF8 argument, and provides an UTF8 result, so that no further conversions are required when used with strings

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 11:28 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Excessive use of RawByteString is at least as inefficient as using Variant for everything :-( While I still doubt that (only) RawByteString is a type that is to be used for dynamical encoding That is correct, depending on what exces

Re: [fpc-devel] new strings, rawbyte type, but what about "raw" encoding

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 11:05 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Schnell said: I suppose there is a way to just set the encoding of a new string. This should not affect the stored bytes (or words or DWords). Afaik it does, but only for ansistring. What exactly is "ansis

Re: [fpc-devel] new strings, rawbyte type, but what about "raw" encoding

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 11:05 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: IRC there is also a codepage that just means "system default" and assumes the system knows how to convert that from/to utf16 (or utf8 on *nix) Why should it do a _conversion_ and not just use the appropriate coding (e.g. utf-16 on Windows and ut

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 11:30 AM, Paul Ishenin wrote: 11.10.2011 16:52, Michael Schnell wrote: In fact I still don't understand the difference between a type called "RawByteString"and a basic new String that happens to be set to the encoding "RawByte". Encoding RawByte as w

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 08:52 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: It does *not* help, because SetCodePage does a string *conversion*, Nope. procedure SetCodePage(var s : RawByteString; CodePage : TSystemCodePage; Convert : Boolean = True); So it can be set to do a conversion or not to do it. -Michael __

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 10:11 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: (a) Sorry, but this does not answer the question I tried to ask (Difference between a possible type called RawByteString and a basic "new string" variable that happens to be set to the Encoding ID "RawByte"). When I have a variable of type

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 09:37 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Why implement the upper/lower translation N times, when afterwards the N encodings have to be converted into the Result encoding? Where the encoding conversions already exist... Obviously, the dedicated upper/lower translation done in a certa

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/11/2011 09:37 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: IMO, calling ToLower with a string that is set to the encoding "RawByte" does not make sense and should generate an exception. Nope. A new string consists of a record that contains the encoding ID, element size, reference count, length and

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
The last answer was to On 10/11/2011 09:37 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: When a string is assigned to an RawByteString, both point to the original string, which has a valid (non-raw) encoding. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 10:09 AM, Paul Ishenin wrote: 12.10.2011 16:03, Michael Schnell wrote: I suppose a variable of the type "String" is pre-loaded with the predefined "System" encoding ID. If you mean "AnsiString" then it is loaded with encoding 0 which means defaul

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 10:35 AM, Sven Barth wrote: No. In Delphi "String = UnicodeString", but AnsiString still exists as a one-byte (or multi-byte) string type (the "new string type" or "code page aware string type"). Sorry, but I don't understand. According to the "TAnsiRec", such a "New String" no

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 01:53 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: All AnsiString types have an element size of 1, UnicodeString has 2 and UCS4String has 4 bytes per element. Disregarding whether or not this makes sense: what technology enforces this (e.g. Compiler Magic or RTL) ? -Michael

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 01:45 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Michael Schnell schrieb: So target encoding ID "0" means that " := " will preserve the encoding of the source and set the target appropriately without doing a conversion. No. Codepage 0 stands for the system encodi

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 12:13 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Delphi allows for RawByteStrings with encoding 0. When assigned to an AnsiString, the string encoding still is zero, both variables seem to point to the same string data. The pointing to the data array (managed by "lazy copy and reference

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 12:09 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Seemingly (other than I assumed) a " := " between new strings does not preserve the encoding, but performs an encoding conversion to the target's encoding ID. Right. As I now understand: Exception: Target encoding ID = 0, source encoding

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 12:09 PM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Right, the new string types are *strict* types, That does make sense regarding Pascal's general "strict type" paradigm. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://list

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 02:09 PM, Sven Barth wrote: Basically both, as both rely on and use the fact that "AnsiString[i] = AnsiChar" and "SizeOf(AnsiChar) = 1" and also "UnicodeString[i] = UnicodeChar" and "SizeOf(UnicodeChar) = 2". Yep. But what I wanted to ask is what happens, if I disregard this, e

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 02:17 PM, Sven Barth wrote: The pointing to the data array (managed by "lazy copy and reference counting features) is independent from the encoding ID, that is part of the string management record and not of the data array. Wrong. Both reference counting and code page are part o

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 02:28 PM, Sven Barth wrote: There will be a conversion. Meaning: - when it is a var parameter, am error message is issued. - when it is a value parameter: conversion is called - type cast will do a conversion - assignment will do a conversion (at least if the target encoding

Re: [fpc-devel] Some questions and proposals about cpstring

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 11:45 AM, Sven Barth wrote: RawByteString is special, because any other string can be assigned to it WITHOUT conversion, but the code page of the assigned string will be kept, so one can still check which code page the original string had. Ooops, so there is not encoding ID "RA

Re: [fpc-devel] Some questions and proposals about cpstring

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 11:33 AM, Alex Shishkin wrote: ... While I feel that something like this migh be a(nother) decent way to handle Unicode strings, obviously different decisions have been taken because 1) Pascal is supposed to be a strictly typed language. This asks for being able to use distinct

Re: [fpc-devel] Some questions and proposals about cpstring

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
In fact this seems to avoid the "nice" feature of the current (Delphi-like) Implementation. Here seemingly inconsistent (or rather "intersexual") strings are provided for: perfectly encoded and distinguishable data that suffers from being locked in a variable that happens to be of a type with

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 02:39 PM, Sven Barth wrote: I'd say yes (the only point I'm really unsure about is "var"-arguments). I did this list according to what I expect regarding to different numerical types (like integer and real) or two really different string types (like short string and long string)

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/12/2011 04:23 PM, Sven Barth wrote: There was some discussion about how to handle var parameters, but I don't remember the outcome anymore. AFAIK Delphi issues a compile error (I don't know for sure though). Options are: - compiler error - compiler warning - runtime exception - con

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-12 Thread Michael Schnell
Thanks ! -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 02:16 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Almost every required conversion can be determined at compile time. It also _can_ be determined at runtime according to the current encoding ID of the string(s) This discussion is not about "can" but about "is" and maybe "should be". Moreov

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 02:05 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: - assignment will do a conversion (at least if the target encoding ID is not zero.) ... conversion unless the target type is RawByteString, or has the same encoding. Paul did inform us that encoding ID = 0 in the target means no conversion

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 04:27 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: FireMonkey is a third-party product, now bought by Embarcadero. That deal seems to be an attempt to avoid an own development, what already failed with both Kylix and Delphi.NET. instead of Kylix they now with XE2 provide FPC and instead of Delp

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 04:27 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: I don't see a speed penalty in using UTF-16. In contrast to UTF-8 it simplifies (and consequently speeds up) all string handling. If doing code heavily doing GUI handling (such as the LCL in Lazarus) and the GUI's API is not UTF-16, all str

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 10:11 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: No, they stated the FPC usage was only temporary because their own ARM compiler was delayed. but AFAIK not notion on until when -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org ht

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 03:13 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: ..., or try to implement something incompatible with Delphi :-( I would not generally depreciate this. I heard a lot comments on problems introduced by the Delphi Unicode String implementation. So maybe in fact there is room for (incompatibl

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 08:20 AM, Paul Ishenin wrote: RawByteString codepage. Value $ and purpose - inform that string has no codepage assigned. I think at the moment compiler does not produce strings of codepage $ anymore but before it did. So now we can probably clear the RTL from this codepa

Re: [fpc-devel] bug report 20473: Please add a directive to define string=utf8string

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 09:43 AM, Sven Barth wrote: 1. Currently there is this huge work going on to get trunk to a reasonable and usable shape again and until that is done (and maybe RTL changes as well) it is (in my opinion (!) ) not reasonable to think about changing the meaning of "string" at all.

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 09:47 AM, Sven Barth wrote: Since FPC 2.4 there also is a UnicodeString in FPC which is compatible to the one in Delphi: a reference counted 2-byte-per-character string type. So you suggest that in Delphi XE, UnicodeString is _not_ a "new String" Type ? -Michael __

Re: [fpc-devel] bug report 20473: Please add a directive to define string=utf8string

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 10:39 AM, Sven Barth wrote: When installing you can always select a custom directory though you can not change the version-id. E.g. you could install to "/lib/fpc-cpstring/2.7.1". Of course I do know how to install FPC in another directory or how to preserve the current installa

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 10:52 AM, Sven Barth wrote: So you suggest that in Delphi XE, UnicodeString is _not_ a "new String" Type ? I don't know what you describe as "new string", but "UnicodeString" was introduced as a new type in Delphi 2009 and "String" was made an alias to "UnicodeString". If you

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 11:05 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: LCL backends work in UTF-16. Of course the LCL backends close to the OS-API on Windows use UTF-16, as this is what the API provides. (Or did I misunderstand your wording ?) -Michael ___ fpc-devel mail

Re: [fpc-devel] new string - question on usage

2011-10-13 Thread Michael Schnell
On 10/13/2011 11:19 AM, Sven Barth wrote: No, UnicodeString is not codepage aware. I was asking about the implementation in XE. If you mean this: Thanks for the clarification. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://

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