I would guess a partership with Google would be a good idea because:
1) They are the best (according to Brian) and
2) If we were to go through with this proposal we'd want the translation
technology now, not in X years when the technology catches up with
google, if at all.
And with many OSS/free
Hoi,
Currently the translation engine by Goole works for some twenty languages.
We have Wikipedias in over 250 languages and we localise in over 300. If we
are to collaborate with Google on this, we should partner in the building of
translation engines for our other languages. We could and we shoul
Proprietary algorithms aren't what make their system better - it's that they
have a larger corpus. Google has published a trillion token dataset for
machine translation researchers but it's presumably just a subset of what
they now have. The data that makes their system so good is already
availabl
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Brian wrote:
> The technical specifications of such a device allow for it to be extremely
> cheap.
I think you are underestimating the size of Wikipedia. Even
compressed a snapshot of the English articles with both text and low
quality images would run you 20+
Hoi,
The notion that this black box needs to use text that is licensed under the
CC-by-sa is a folly. The data that is gathered by data mining strips the
meaning of the text. Consequently it can be considered to be a completely
and utterly separate work. Using text as the basis of a corpus is
essen
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:
>
> The notion that this black box needs to use text that is licensed under the
> CC-by-sa is a folly.
Just to be clear I never said you had to use CC-BY-SA text as input.
___
foundation-l mailing
2009/5/31 Brian :
> Given currently existing technology, and technology that we can reasonably
> assume to be available within the next decade, how can the WMF best achieve
> its goal of giving every person free access to our current best summary of
> all human knowledge?
Dead tree technology. Wi
2009/5/31 Foxy Loxy :
> Assembling a chain of production that long, particularly for a
> non-profit foundation that doesn't have the best reputation (I'm not
> saying it's justified, but many people in high places will go 'ew,
> wikipedia').
[citation needed]
People in high places appear to lov
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Brian wrote:
> How does Google Wave help the WMF achieve its goals?
Not sure, it doesn't really exist yet. I'm sure there will be numerous ways
in which it can do it, though.
Wikipedia has already become a dominant information source for the 1.5
> billion peop
> 2009/5/31 Foxy Loxy :
>
>> Assembling a chain of production that long, particularly for a
>> non-profit foundation that doesn't have the best reputation (I'm not
>> saying it's justified, but many people in high places will go 'ew,
>> wikipedia').
>
> on 5/31/09 7:29 AM, David Gerard at dger..
2009/5/31 Jussi-Ville Heiskanen :
> For sure. I was just burying the point that telegrams
> are not the best comparison. Courier mail did the
> thing much slower, but it got the thing done.
> Telegrams were for when you needed the
> immediacy that E-mail now gives for free.(spam notwithstanding)
I
Hoi,
Thinking of Google Wave as an application is not doing it justice. In my
opinion the most important part of Wave is its protocol. This is best
appreciated in that Google expects production quality code to go with the
"reference implementation". This reference implementation in turn will be
ava
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Brian wrote:
> I propose a cheap cellphone-sized device (OWPP) whose only purpose is to
> read Wikipedia.
That's probably both the wrong form (too small) and the wrong content (too
flighty) for people permanently without access to the Internet (who
presumably a
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Brian wrote:
>
>> How does Google Wave help the WMF achieve its goals?
>
>
> Not sure, it doesn't really exist yet. I'm sure there will be numerous ways
> in which it can do it, though.
While we could move this mailing list over to Waves and
2009/5/31 Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> Thinking of Google Wave as an application is not doing it justice. In my
> opinion the most important part of Wave is its protocol.
You're absolutely right, but I still think it is the fact that all
these things are in one app that is important, but it is equal
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni wrote:
> Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely
> used languages.
>
> Select the 40K most important articles (that will be fun).
Do you really think the 40K most important Wikipedia articles are more
useful than a set of high
Hoi,
May I remind you that the majority of our Wikipedia do not have 40K articles
..
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/5/31 Anthony
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni wrote:
>
> > Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely
> > used languages.
> >
> > Select the 40K mos
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Brian wrote:
>
>> I propose a cheap cellphone-sized device (OWPP) whose only purpose is to
>> read Wikipedia.
>
>
> That's probably both the wrong form (too small) and the wrong content (too
> flighty) for people permanently without access to
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Brian
> wrote:
> >
> >> How does Google Wave help the WMF achieve its goals?
> >
> >
> > Not sure, it doesn't really exist yet. I'm sure there will be numerous
> ways
> > in which it
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:
> Hoi,
> May I remind you that the majority of our Wikipedia do not have 40K
> articles
> ..
> Thanks,
> GerardM
Sure, but that's not at all a helpful comment.
___
foundation-l mailing list
f
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Brian
> wrote:
> >
> >> I propose a cheap cellphone-sized device (OWPP) whose only purpose is to
> >> read Wikipedia.
> >
> >
> > That's probably both the wrong form (too small) and t
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> If Waves works anything like email, then it will be possible to use it when
> not directly connected to the Internet. How's that for helping get
> Wikipedia to people without Internet access?
Not very. Waves, like email, should work for people with intermittent
internet acce
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> In any case, I think a small targetted wikibooks collection is going to be
> more useful than Wikipedia.
For a practical example, the Schools Wikipedia is proving enormously
popular with teachers in countries of all economic levels. Requires
something that can read a DVD, o
2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> Wikipedia over TV would never work. There isn't the bandwidth for it.
>
>
> So only broadcast a subset.
A very small subset.
>> TV is a broadcast medium, that means you have to be constantly sending
>> everything anyone could want (or, at least, sending it fairly
>> frequen
Hoi,
Wave in its reference implementation relies on HTML 5. This means that it
requires a modern browser. With a browser it is possible to access data that
is on a LAN or on the local computer. This would allow us to have
"Wikipedia" type content stored locally or on a LAN. One question is how
will
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > If Waves works anything like email, then it will be possible to use it
> when
> > not directly connected to the Internet. How's that for helping get
> > Wikipedia to people without Internet access?
>
> Not very. Waves
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:
> One question is how
> will resources will react when newer data becomes available, will it
> synchronise?
That seems to be part of the protocol. You'd set up a bot which makes the
updates, and add it. Someone on the LAN would have to ru
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> Now my understanding is that the protocol for interserver communication
> isn't completed, and who knows it may be vaporware. But it's an intriguing
> possibility. (As I said in a previous message, finally the platform I need
> for P2Pedia is here.)
Wave sounds more like
2009/5/31 Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> Wave in its reference implementation relies on HTML 5. This means that it
> requires a modern browser. With a browser it is possible to access data that
> is on a LAN or on the local computer. This would allow us to have
> "Wikipedia" type content stored locally
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> >> Wikipedia over TV would never work. There isn't the bandwidth for it.
> >
> >
> > So only broadcast a subset.
>
> A very small subset.
>
A single channel can broadcast over 5Mbps. That's 52 gigabytes per day,
enough
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 10:14 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>
> > Now my understanding is that the protocol for interserver communication
> > isn't completed, and who knows it may be vaporware. But it's an
> intriguing
> > possibility. (As I said in a previous message, finally t
Hoi,
Much of the Wave functionality demonstrated is superior to what is
available in MediaWiki. Consider a LAN with OPLC systems, consider a Wave
server on the school server.. It would be pretty damn good to be able to
have all kinds of activities that makes use of the functionality that is
part o
It's interesting thinking about it this way, because Wave could potentially
even replace Wikipedia. Transfer the contents of a Wikipedia article to
Wave, and make a widget to display the current article (or, even better, the
latest approved version). Now anyone can start a mirror with virtually n
2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> By "broadcast medium" I mean a one-way transmission of information.
>
>
> I don't know about yours, but my TV uses two-way transmission. So a
> statement that "TV is a broadcast medium" is just not correct. True, it's
> probably correct in the vast majority of situations, b
2009/5/31 Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> Much of the Wave functionality demonstrated is superior to what is
> available in MediaWiki. Consider a LAN with OPLC systems, consider a Wave
> server on the school server.. It would be pretty damn good to be able to
> have all kinds of activities that makes u
> That's a pretty important question. If not being an internet user just
> means that you have internet at the library and not in your home, the method
> to reach such people is much different. Considering that the United States
> is listed at 74.7%, I'm sure "internet user" is defined too strict
Hoi,
Wave might replace parts of MediaWiki but it would not replace Wikipedia...
To appreciate this, you have to realise what it is the WMF stands for.. It
is content first and foremost. MediaWiki is our current software. It is
great software and it has great functionality. When the Wave software i
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> Who has cable TV that can't get internet access?
I didn't say *cable* TV.
> You mentioned TV in
> the context of a way of getting information to people without internet
> access, so I ignored the existence of cable since it doesn't apply
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Gerard Meijssen :
> > Hoi,
> > Much of the Wave functionality demonstrated is superior to what is
> > available in MediaWiki. Consider a LAN with OPLC systems, consider a Wave
> > server on the school server.. It would be pretty d
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Mark Williamson wrote:
> Your idea that the fact that the statistic counts over 25% of US
> Americans as not being internet users must mean a very strict
> definition is used is not necessarily correct.
Touche. I was equating "internet user" with "someone with
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Wave might replace parts of MediaWiki but it would not replace Wikipedia...
> To appreciate this, you have to realise what it is the WMF stands for..
It stands for the Wikimedia Foundation.
It is content first and foremost.
No, it's
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Thomas Dalton
> wrote:
>
>> Who has cable TV that can't get internet access?
>
>
> I didn't say *cable* TV.
What kind of TV do you have that can go two ways, then? The only types
I know are cable, satellite and regular radio waves, only the
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> If you watched the Wave presentation you'll see that there is quite a bit of
> edit conflict handling already built in (they showed three people editing
> the same page simultaneously).
I did watch it. That was live, they could see each other editing and
avoid each other. The
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >
> >> Who has cable TV that can't get internet access?
> >
> >
> > I didn't say *cable* TV.
>
> What kind of TV do you have that can go two ways, then? The o
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > If you watched the Wave presentation you'll see that there is quite a bit
> of
> > edit conflict handling already built in (they showed three people editing
> > the same page simultaneously).
>
> I did watch it. That
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> There is no such thing as "one-way internet access". The internet is
> always 2-way.
Perhaps so (depends on your definitions), but then, Wave probably isn't
dependent on internet access in the first place. I see no reason it would
be.
___
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni wrote:
>
>> Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely
>> used languages.
>>
>> Select the 40K most important articles (that will be fun).
>
>
> Do you really think the 40K most important Wikipedia articles are
2009/5/31 David Gerard :
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>
>> In any case, I think a small targetted wikibooks collection is going to be
>> more useful than Wikipedia.
>
>
> For a practical example, the Schools Wikipedia is proving enormously
> popular with teachers in countries of all economic levels. Requi
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Thomas Dalton
> wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> > If you watched the Wave presentation you'll see that there is quite a bit
>> of
>> > edit conflict handling already built in (they showed three people editing
>> > the same page simultaneou
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton
> wrote:
>
>> There is no such thing as "one-way internet access". The internet is
>> always 2-way.
>
>
> Perhaps so (depends on your definitions), but then, Wave probably isn't
> dependent on internet access in the first place.
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:34 PM, geni wrote:
>
> There are a number of existing projects to send out school text books.
> An encyclopedia however is a useful part of wider learning.
I guess, but a print copy of some subset of Wikipedia doesn't seem like the
best solution for someone who already
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton
> wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Thomas Dalton > >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Who has cable TV that can't get internet access?
>> >
>> >
>> > I didn't say *cable* TV.
>>
>> What kind of TV do you ha
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >
> >> There is no such thing as "one-way internet access". The internet is
> >> always 2-way.
> >
> >
> > Perhaps so (depends on your definitions), but then,
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Thomas Dalton > >wrote:
>> >
>> >> There is no such thing as "one-way internet access". The internet is
>> >> always 2-way.
>> >
>> >
>> > Perhaps so (depends
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> Edit conflicts with live editing aren't an issue, manual resolution is
> trivial. Edit conflicts with significant delays are a much bigger
> problem and require automated merging, which isn't always possible,
> and is often very difficult.
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>> Edit conflicts with live editing aren't an issue, manual resolution is
>> trivial. Edit conflicts with significant delays are a much bigger
>> problem and require automated merging, which isn't always possible,
>> and
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >> If it doesn't work over IP then it isn't the internet, and IP is a
> >> two-way protocol.
> >
> >
> > That might work except it isn't true. UDP/IP is one-wa
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:34 PM, geni wrote:
>>
>> There are a number of existing projects to send out school text books.
>> An encyclopedia however is a useful part of wider learning.
>
>
> I guess, but a print copy of some subset of Wikipedia doesn't seem like the
> best so
Hoi,
Wave DOES have a license and it is neither BSD nor GPL. It is however very
much open source. You can create a GPL licensed implementation of Wave but
that would not be acceptable as production code that is to be used in
association with proposed changes to the protocol.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> HTTP uses TCP/IP, not UDP/IP. Your comment was "If it doesn't work over IP
> then it isn't the internet". If you'd like to change that to "If it doesn't
> work over TCP then it isn't the internet", fine. But it probably wouldn't
> be difficult to run the Wave protocol over
2009/5/31 geni :
> 2009/5/31 David Gerard :
>> For a practical example, the Schools Wikipedia is proving enormously
>> popular with teachers in countries of all economic levels. Requires
>> something that can read a DVD, or have said DVD dumped onto its hard
>> disk somehow, and in print it'd be r
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >
> >> Edit conflicts with live editing aren't an issue, manual resolution is
> >> trivial. Edit conflicts with significant delays are a much bigger
> >> proble
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:20 PM, geni wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > HTTP uses TCP/IP, not UDP/IP. Your comment was "If it doesn't work over
> IP
> > then it isn't the internet". If you'd like to change that to "If it
> doesn't
> > work over TCP then it isn't the internet", fine. But it prob
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> Brand new and for retail price, sure. But used and/or at cost (which surely
> there are publishers willing to provide for this sort of thing), I don't see
> how you could beat the established players.
For fairly obvious reasons the existing publishers have not encouraged
the
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:42 PM, geni wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > I'm not sure we should waste everyone on this mailing list's time going
> > through the details and formulating a plan. Let's take Tagalog. We've
> got
> > 22 million native speakers, of which what % have internet access,
>
geni wrote:
> Now a lot of those languages are Indian which since they tend to be
> fairly closely related and bilingualism is fairly common Bengali,
> Hindi, Punjabi and English should cover most cases.
That's very generously European of you. The three Indian languages that
you chose are all In
Anthony wrote:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni wrote:
>
>> Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely
>> used languages.
>>
>> Select the 40K most important articles (that will be fun).
>>
> Do you really think the 40K most important Wikipedia articles a
2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge :
> Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
> functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
> of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
> would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield fro
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge :
> > Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
> > functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
> > of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
>
2009/5/31 Anthony :
> I just found another statistic. Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of the
> worlds population.
>
> For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
> solution. For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
> means to come live with the
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
> > I just found another statistic. Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of
> the
> > worlds population.
> >
> > For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
> > solution. For the rest, giving
2009/6/1 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>> 2009/5/31 Anthony :
>> > I just found another statistic. Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of
>> the
>> > worlds population.
>> >
>> > For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
>> > sol
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
> laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
> expensive just to give someone an up-to-date en
2009/6/1 Anthony :
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
>> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
>> laptops, and network subscriptions, though - that's getting rather
>> expensive just to giv
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/6/1 Anthony :
> > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Thomas Dalton >wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I'm so used to broadband I forgot about the
> >> existence of dial up for a second! You would need to hand out phones,
> >> laptops, and network s
75 matches
Mail list logo
