My proposal:
1.- Have a set of simple rules approved by community.
2.- A langcom integrate enterly by lingüists.
C.m.l.
___
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fo
As another historical note from Wikimania 2008 ...
In our session (of mine and Arria Belli) which focused on translation,
a girl who seemed to be Arabic but not known to me from where she came
asked me if there would be a possibility of āmmiyya Wikipedias. I
don't know which āmmiyya she cared for
Michael Bimmler hett schreven:
> I must say, I find this a bit of a difficult claim to make just out of
> the air. What is your supporting evidence for US and Canada having
> "the same mindset" and "the same mentality", other than the mindset
> which both states also share with Germany, France, Bri
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Marcus Buck wrote:
> Ray Saintonge hett schreven:
>> That's an outrageous assumption. Canadians who attend an international
>> sporting event between Americans and any other country will most often
>> cheer for the other country. Since 1959 Canada has never brok
Ray Saintonge hett schreven:
> That's an outrageous assumption. Canadians who attend an international
> sporting event between Americans and any other country will most often
> cheer for the other country. Since 1959 Canada has never broken
> diplomatic relations with Cuba, and has not partici
Hoi,
It is tragic to learn that the two Wikipedias cannot find it in themselves
to cooperate. The two projects did not merge because at the time the
position was taken that the standard orthography was not accepted. It would
be really cool if a sense of sanity and friendship would prevail and have
2009/1/12 Gerard Meijssen :
> We only accept one Wikipedia for one language. The fact that we still have
> what is called the be-tarask.wikipedia.org is only because people were of
> the opinion that we should retain the work that was done. Now I wonder what
> more experts could add to this.
I am
Hoi,
At the time there was a request for the STANDARD orthography of the Belarus
language to be supported, The then be.wp community refused *any *content in
that orthography with the argument that the current orthography is Stalinist
and, that they reject it because of this. Given that Wikipedia is
Marcus Buck wrote:
> Tim Starling hett schreven:
>
>> Marcus Buck wrote:
>>
>>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>>> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin
Platonides wrote:
> Mohamed Magdy wrote:
>> * I think it would be doable to make a tab that Egyptianizes (or any other
>> dialect) the Arabic article, that is, if we have some sort of conversion
>> memory, that is if the dialect is stable (or standard), the dialect differs
>> from a place to anothe
The differences are certainly more than spelling, but there exists a
continuum for a variety like Egyptian Arabic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-creole_speech_continuum
I don't know if it would be accurate to classify Egyptian Arabic as a
creole, but such a continuum certainly exists AFAIK be
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Most of the grammatical features you cited are shared with Standard
> Arabic... that's not a list of differences, it's a general description
> of Egyptian Arabic with a couple of differences noted. Written in
> Arabic script, short vowels aren't distinguished most of the ti
Most of the grammatical features you cited are shared with Standard
Arabic... that's not a list of differences, it's a general description
of Egyptian Arabic with a couple of differences noted. Written in
Arabic script, short vowels aren't distinguished most of the time, so
that's irrelevant anyhow
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Tim Starling wrote:
> Arabic may have spread from Morocco to Malaysia, but Cairo is quite close
> to the Arabian peninsula, so I wonder if you're not overgeneralising.
From: http://www.lmp.ucla.edu/Profile.aspx?menu=004&LangID=51
"Egyptian Arabic is distinguished
Marcus Buck wrote:
> Tim Starling hett schreven:
>> Marcus Buck wrote:
>>
>>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>>> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell o
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
> I did't want to come back to Belarus Wikipedia case, but at that time
> I have found quite easily 2 good experts. One from Univ. of Warsaw,
> vice-head o Belaruss literature department and one from Univ of Oxford
> (an emeritus professor, spe
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:04 AM, Marcus Buck wrote:
> Tim Starling hett schreven:
>> Marcus Buck wrote:
>>
>>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>>> is something like Latin. With the
Tim Starling hett schreven:
> Marcus Buck wrote:
>
>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell out of use
>> to make plac
(oops, should be "divergent")
2009/1/11 Mark Williamson :
> Some Arabic varieties are more different than others. I would support
> a Wikipedia in Derja, for example (Maghrebi Arabic).
>
> Mark
>
> 2009/1/11 Tim Starling :
>> Marcus Buck wrote:
>>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that
Some Arabic varieties are more different than others. I would support
a Wikipedia in Derja, for example (Maghrebi Arabic).
Mark
2009/1/11 Tim Starling :
> Marcus Buck wrote:
>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard
wrote:
> ...and there is an upcoming proposal for a quorum to ensure that
> no other decision can be made without community consensus.
(That should be "subcommittee consensus", of course.)
--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Path
Marcus Buck wrote:
> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell out of use
> to make place for the Romance languages. So Egyptia
Luxembourgish has an ISO code, doesn't it? Why wouldn't it be allowed?
Mark
2009/1/11 Ziko van Dijk :
> The problem seems to be not the lack of a linguist's knowledge. We
> Wikimedians are not sure or unanimous about what to expect from a Wikipedia
> language edition, and what languages (language
2009/1/11 Milos Rancic :
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
>>> Well, I think there should be not only computer-linguists experts like
>>> Evertype in LangCom, but you desperately need people who have good
>>> knowledge
The problem seems to be not the lack of a linguist's knowledge. We
Wikimedians are not sure or unanimous about what to expect from a Wikipedia
language edition, and what languages (language communities) we trust to
conform to our expectations.
My thoughts about the questions discussed here:
- The
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
>> Well, I think there should be not only computer-linguists experts like
>> Evertype in LangCom, but you desperately need people who have good
>> knowledge about culture, sociology and h
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
> Well, I think there should be not only computer-linguists experts like
> Evertype in LangCom, but you desperately need people who have good
> knowledge about culture, sociology and history of the main language
> groups, or at least you shoul
Hoi,
This is not that strange. The time span for discussion is brief. Discussion
is relevant until the moment when it is decided that a language is eligible.
When a language is eligible, the people who work on a proposal have to
fulfill the rest of the requirements but do so in the understanding th
> So, there are two conclusions: (1) I may imagine the process which had
> happened in relation to EA approval: no one made any serious objection
> and it passed. (2) There are two LangCom members introduced better in
> the linguistic issues, so the expertise level is raised and I think
> that it w
Just an off topic, you do realize that me and the original poster of this
thread are different people, right? I do ask because you kind of mixed our
arguments in the last part of your post. The original poster probably has a
more 'vivid' choice of words than I usually do :) .
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009
2009/1/11 Gerard Meijssen :
> When you talk about reasonable decisions, what is it that makes something
> reasonable? The fact that people like Mohamed consider Egyptian Arabic as
> ignorant makes clear their position, but is that reasonable ? The language
> committee has only a remit to help new
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> The current policy is really objective; a request for a project will be
> honoured when it complies with a set of prerequisites.
>
>- is the language recognised as a language in the ISO-639-3
>- is the language sufficiently unique
>- is there a sufficient
On Sunday 11 January 2009 01:18:55 Milos Rancic wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> > I was sitting next to an Egyptian VIP in the front row when the
> > announcement was made, and he laughed and indicated that he thought this
> > was stupid.
> >
> > It is not up to me
Hoi,
The current policy is really objective; a request for a project will be
honoured when it complies with a set of prerequisites.
- is the language recognised as a language in the ISO-639-3
- is the language sufficiently unique
- is there a sufficiently large corpus in the incubator
2009/1/11 Milos Rancic :
> So, there are two conclusions: (1) I may imagine the process which had
> happened in relation to EA approval: no one made any serious objection
> and it passed. (2) There are two LangCom members introduced better in
> the linguistic issues, so the expertise level is rai
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, Muhammad Alsebaey wrote:
> With all due respect to all the work Gerard has done, my issue with him is
> simple (should be apparent by now), he approved EA based on a mail exchange
> he had with only one committee member, painted that in a public email as a
> unanim
hmm I didnt do an extensive search the first time around but I was looking
at their writing guidelines and they say they encourage writing in either
Latin or Arabic, which means that as of now, more articles are encouraged,
and I think dudi is the admin MahmudMasri, who is still very active as I ca
Muhammad Alsebaey hett schreven:
>> The mission of the foundation is an educational one. So it would be
>> better to ask the uneducated masses of Egypt, whether they feel a gain
>> from a Wikipedia in their language or whether they stick with the
>> "Latin" Wikipedia.
>>
>> Marcus Buck
>>
>>
>>
Milos,
With all due respect to all the work Gerard has done, my issue with him is
simple (should be apparent by now), he approved EA based on a mail exchange
he had with only one committee member, painted that in a public email as a
unanimous decision, and it turned out that 4 of his committee mem
>
> The mission of the foundation is an educational one. So it would be
> better to ask the uneducated masses of Egypt, whether they feel a gain
> from a Wikipedia in their language or whether they stick with the
> "Latin" Wikipedia.
>
> Marcus Buck
>
>
It is interesting to me to see that Masri con
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 2:46 AM, geni wrote:
> 2009/1/11 Milos Rancic :
>> Jimmy, just to remind you that people in one academic institution in
>> Belgrade laughed when you mentioned Bosnian language in 2005. But,
>> things are somewhat changed now.
>
> Not really. There is still little evidence t
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Marcus Buck wrote:
> elisabeth bauer hett schreven:
>> 2009/1/11 Marcus Buck :
>>
>>
>>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>>> is something like Latin
elisabeth bauer hett schreven:
> 2009/1/11 Marcus Buck :
>
>
>> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
>> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
>> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell out of use
>> to ma
2009/1/11 Milos Rancic :
> Jimmy, just to remind you that people in one academic institution in
> Belgrade laughed when you mentioned Bosnian language in 2005. But,
> things are somewhat changed now.
Not really. There is still little evidence that it is a language
distinct from the rest of the Cen
2009/1/11 Marcus Buck :
> In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation
> united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic
> is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell out of use
> to make place for the Romance languages. So Egyp
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> Mohamed Magdy wrote:
>> (I heard that people were happy at Wikimania (Florence?)
>> because of that proposal but I fail to understand why the Egyptian people
>> there didn't express their opinion about it (it was in Egypt :!).
>
> I was sittin
Jimmy Wales hett schreven:
> Mohamed Magdy wrote:
>
>> (I heard that people were happy at Wikimania (Florence?)
>> because of that proposal but I fail to understand why the Egyptian people
>> there didn't express their opinion about it (it was in Egypt :!).
>>
>
> I was sitting next to an E
Hoi,
Typically the time period is a couple of days up to a week. Pathoschild has
asked our least active members if they were still interested in being a
member. He indicated that he was going to make proposals. I am still waiting
for those.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/1/11 Muhammad Alsebaey
> Do y
Do you have a set time limit for people to respond in? a week? a month? and
what about the 4 inactive persons, how do you consider them inactive? what
if you had 7 inactive members out of 10 at a time and didnt know it, would
it still be a 'unanimous' decision?
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Ger
Hoi,
You are wrong. If one person had objected at the time, the proposal would
not have been made eligible.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/1/11 Muhammad Alsebaey
> Which creates the situation we are in, according to you, all members of
> the
> language committee were explicitly asked to consider the
Which creates the situation we are in, according to you, all members of the
language committee were explicitly asked to consider the issues that I and
others raised, but since only one out of the 10+ people responded, therefore
they must have all considered all the issues and have no comment, and
Hoi,
As I have been saying before, the language committee works on the basis that
if only one person objects, something does not move forward. Many subjects
are raised on our mailing list where people are notified that something is
going to be done and when nobody objects within a certain time fram
Hoi,
This is a personal attack, an attack that is the result of discontent of the
way in which the policy of the language committee has been implemented.
So let me show where Mohammed is wrong. First of all, the language committee
is multiple people. Recently two high powered people were added to
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Muhammad Alsebaey wrote:
> So Based on the the Archives Jesse and Casey graciously provided the link
> to, the only discussion about Masry I found was:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Archives/2008-07#Wikipedia_Egyptian_Arabic
Yes, there w
So Based on the the Archives Jesse and Casey graciously provided the link
to, the only discussion about Masry I found was:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_subcommittee/Archives/2008-07#Wikipedia_Egyptian_Arabic
When I raised the issue of Masry on this mailing list, raising what I
thought
Mohamed Magdy wrote:
> (I heard that people were happy at Wikimania (Florence?)
> because of that proposal but I fail to understand why the Egyptian people
> there didn't express their opinion about it (it was in Egypt :!).
I was sitting next to an Egyptian VIP in the front row when the
announcem
I personally do not care about the nature of Gerard's character, he may be a
very nice person if I meet him in person ( next Wikimania maybe). I am just
refering to the way he conducted himself during the discussions on
languages. And yes, I strongly believe this was aggressive. I won't get into
su
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Muhammad Alsebaey wrote:
> Thank you for the links, the last time I asked to look at those I was told
> the whole mailing list was private and not open to the public, I think
> opening this up is a huge step forward towards transparency.
>
Whoever told you that wa
Hi Jesse,
Thank you for the links, the last time I asked to look at those I was told
the whole mailing list was private and not open to the public, I think
opening this up is a huge step forward towards transparency.
I appreciate also your clarification about Gerard, I would have appreciated
him
I don´t think this is very fair. You can call Gerard a lot, but not really
agressive... He can be very enthusiast, committed, and very sure he is
right, and trying to persuade others, but agressive?
Anyway, I don't think a mailinglist (especially not this one) is a good
place to discuss *people* r
Muhammad Alsebaey wrote:
> - Gerard has been the *only* person from LangCom that I have seen reply
> to any of the issues, his replies are selective, he refuses to answer
> whatever he doesnt think is relevant to his argument and is in general very
> aggressive, If the guys at LangCom chos
2009/1/10 Muhammad Alsebaey :
> - Gerard has been the *only* person from LangCom that I have seen reply
> to any of the issues, his replies are selective, he refuses to answer
> whatever he doesnt think is relevant to his argument and is in general very
> aggressive, If the guys at LangCom
I was against the idea of creating a Masry Wikipedia (there is a looong
thread where I brought it up here), *However* I am against deleting any
Wikipedia that has been created and picked up an active community,
regardless of how controversial it is. It is simply unfair to the people who
have invest
(This message is not an official message from the subcommittee, just
myself as a member.)
Hello Mohamed Magdy,
As a member of the language subcommittee, I am sorry you are
disappointed with our performance, but it is not true that its members
do not care.
The Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia was appro
Mohamed Magdy wrote:
> * I think it would be doable to make a tab that Egyptianizes (or any other
> dialect) the Arabic article, that is, if we have some sort of conversion
> memory, that is if the dialect is stable (or standard), the dialect differs
> from a place to another, from a muhafazah to a
Hi all,
I would like to propose the dismantling of the language committee and
creating a new one (not including Gerard, of course).
Why?
Because it is chronically malfunctioning.
Manifested in:
# Gerard is forcing all his opinion, anything else is going nowhere.
# Other members don't really care
66 matches
Mail list logo
