Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-12 Thread Tomas Härdin
ons 2025-02-12 klockan 12:49 +0100 skrev Nicolas George: > Tomas Härdin (HE12025-02-12): > > This is aristocracy, not democracy. > > Why do you believe democracy would be a good model for a Libre > Software > project? The title of the thread includes the word "democratization".. Plenty of free s

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-12 Thread Nicolas George
Tomas Härdin (HE12025-02-12): > This is aristocracy, not democracy. Why do you believe democracy would be a good model for a Libre Software project? Why do you believe the opinion of people should matter irregardless of the quality and merit of their contribution to the project? (There is an obvi

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-12 Thread Tomas Härdin
ons 2025-01-29 klockan 21:33 +0100 skrev Michael Niedermayer: >     Make Voting Power Proportional to Contributions >     Fair Representation: Allocate voting power based on > contributions, ensuring that those who dedicate substantial time and > effort to the project have a stronger voice than

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-03 Thread Nicolas George
Michael Niedermayer (12025-02-03): > Lets assume we have 2 projects in one the vulnerability was taken advantage of > while in the other it was not. > > How would you tell them apart ? One of them would have a software-defined radio subsystem, the other not. Regards, -- Nicolas George __

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-03 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 03:14:58PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 2/1/2025 6:53 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > Hi James > > > > On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > > On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: [...] > , the text points this out in a mockin

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-03 Thread Vittorio Giovara
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 7:08 PM Michael Niedermayer wrote: > Hi James > > On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 03:14:58PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > On 2/1/2025 6:53 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > > Hi James > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > > > On 1/31/2025 9:

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-03 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi James On Sun, Feb 02, 2025 at 03:14:58PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 2/1/2025 6:53 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > Hi James > > > > On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > > On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > > > Hi James > > > > > > > > On Fri

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-02 Thread Ronald S. Bultje
Michael, On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 4:53 PM Michael Niedermayer wrote: > The system is absurd, the text points this out in a mocking/ironic way. > If you want me to reword this in a dry formal way, i can submit such a > patch? > Every system is absurd. "If everyone just agreed with me, then ..." Th

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-02 Thread James Almer
On 2/1/2025 7:27 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi James On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: [...] has worked. Changing it now because one person was unhappy with a CC (That This is a false statement. Iam not sugge

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-02 Thread James Almer
On 2/1/2025 6:53 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi James On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi James On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: Niklas Ha

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-02 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 02:45:26PM +0800, Zhao Zhili wrote: > > > > On Feb 1, 2025, at 08:49, Michael Niedermayer > > wrote: > > > > Hi James > > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > >> On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: > >>> Niklas Haas (12025-01-

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Vittorio Giovara
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 3:26 AM Leo Izen wrote: > While this isn't an entirely analogous situation, most contributors who > are active have been active since they started contributing, so this > doesn't do a whole lot except to pick out people who used to be active > and then stopped and then star

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Soft Works
> -Original Message- > From: ffmpeg-devel On Behalf Of Leo > Izen > Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 3:26 AM > To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2 > > On 1/31/25 11:01 AM, Soft Works wrote: [..]

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Leo Izen
On 1/31/25 11:01 AM, Soft Works wrote: -Original Message- From: ffmpeg-devel On Behalf Of James Almer Sent: Friday, January 31, 2025 4:45 PM To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2 Past involvement, including long-past

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi Nicolas On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 09:44:50PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote: > Michael Niedermayer (12025-01-29): > > Hi all > > > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people > > can discuss if they like) > > Counter-proposal: > > By any sane measure of merit to

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
Hi Michael, On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, 22:27 Michael Niedermayer, wrote: > > Lets be carefull here with the words. But the awnser is "yes" > Many developers have been paid to write commits. employees, contractors, > students > As an FFlabs employee (which I believe is the biggest GA cohort) and shareh

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi James On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: [...] > > > > > > > has worked. Changing it now because one person was unhappy with a CC (That > > > > This is a false statement. Iam not suggesting a change to the GA because

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi James On Sat, Feb 01, 2025 at 10:30:21AM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > Hi James > > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > > On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: > > > > Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): > > [...

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Nicolas George
Michael Niedermayer (12025-01-29): > Hi all > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people > can discuss if they like) Counter-proposal: By any sane measure of merit towards the project you would get more votes than anybody else, that makes no sense. So, instead

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Vittorio Giovara
Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 1, 2025, at 3:11 PM, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote: > > Hello, > >> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, at 07:45, Zhao Zhili wrote: >> The proposal treat every GA member as suspect, and GA members with >> daily jobs guilty. >> >> The community should be based on trust and everyone s

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Vittorio Giovara
Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 1, 2025, at 2:21 PM, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > > Hi, > >> On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 1:45 AM Zhao Zhili < >> quinkblack-at-foxmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: >> >> The proposal treat every GA member as suspect, and GA members with daily >> jobs guilty. > > > Thank you

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Jean-Baptiste Kempf
Hello, On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, at 07:45, Zhao Zhili wrote: > The proposal treat every GA member as suspect, and GA members with > daily jobs guilty. > > The community should be based on trust and everyone should be trust > equally, +1 > It’s dangerous to fix the vulnerability in the GA by make G

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread James Almer
On 1/31/2025 9:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi James On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): [...] On the other hand, I believe this whole plan is a bad idea. Yes, it is a bad idea. We have had

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-02-01 Thread Ronald S. Bultje
Hi, On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 1:45 AM Zhao Zhili < quinkblack-at-foxmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: > The proposal treat every GA member as suspect, and GA members with daily > jobs guilty. Thank you for saying this. I couldn't agree more. Ronald ___ ffmpeg

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread Zhao Zhili
> On Feb 1, 2025, at 08:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > Hi James > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: >> On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: >>> Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): > [...] >>> On the other hand, I believe this whole plan is a bad idea. >> Yes, it

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi James On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:44:50PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: > > Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): [...] > > On the other hand, I believe this whole plan is a bad idea. > Yes, it is a bad idea. We have had the current system in place for about > fiv

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread James Almer
On 1/31/2025 11:58 AM, Nicolas George wrote: Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): This should be time-gated to count only commits in the recent, say, 3 years (to match the current GA cycle). Counting purely historical commits seems odd. On the other hand, we should give more weight to the opinion of peo

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread Soft Works
> -Original Message- > From: ffmpeg-devel On Behalf Of > James Almer > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2025 4:45 PM > To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2 > > > Past involvement, including long-pa

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread Nicolas George
Niklas Haas (12025-01-30): > This should be time-gated to count only commits in the recent, say, 3 > years (to match the current GA cycle). Counting purely historical > commits seems odd. On the other hand, we should give more weight to the opinion of people who have been around for many years and

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-31 Thread Nicolas George
Michael Niedermayer (12025-01-30): > If instead of a hypothetical case, you use real cases > like for example any successfull company (not just on the stock market > but that too) If we compare ffmpeg to a company (a dangerous comparison, as the goals of FFmpeg are quite different, but let us roll

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-30 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi Niklas On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 12:43:13AM +0100, Niklas Haas wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 21:33:21 +0100 Michael Niedermayer > wrote: > > Hi all > > > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people > > can discuss if they like) > > > > Goals: > > The prop

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Vittorio Giovara
On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 9:33 PM Michael Niedermayer wrote: > Hi all > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so > people can discuss if they like) > > Goals: > The proposed changes aim to improve the General Assembly's structure > to ensure inclusivity, fairness,

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Vittorio Giovara
@ffmpeg.org > > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2 > > > > On 1/29/25 3:33 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, > > so people

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Niklas Haas
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 21:33:21 +0100 Michael Niedermayer wrote: > Hi all > > Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people > can discuss if they like) > > Goals: > The proposed changes aim to improve the General Assembly's structure to > ensure inclusivity, fai

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Soft Works
> -Original Message- > From: ffmpeg-devel On Behalf Of Leo > Izen > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2025 10:39 PM > To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2 > > On 1/29/25 3:33 PM, Michael Niede

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Nicolas George
Leo Izen (12025-01-29): > I have been silent on this for a very long time, but I would like to point > out at this point that Michael has approximately five times as many commits > as the next-most prolific contributor (Andreas). We can add that Michael's commits tend to be more complex. This is

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Leo Izen
On 1/29/25 3:33 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi all Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people can discuss if they like) Goals: The proposed changes aim to improve the General Assembly's structure to ensure inclusivity, fairness, and resilience against

[FFmpeg-devel] Democratization work in progress draft v2

2025-01-29 Thread Michael Niedermayer
Hi all Heres my current "work in progress": (sending that before fosdem, so people can discuss if they like) Goals: The proposed changes aim to improve the General Assembly's structure to ensure inclusivity, fairness, and resilience against attacks. The key goals are as follows: Increa