Re: [DNSOP] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Doug Barton
Roy Arends wrote: > I find it worrying that folks intend to test or practice operational > procedures by doing it often on a live production system. What if that > test or practice fails? "Whoops, we were testing it on the live system, > we failed, good thing we called it a test" > > There is also

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Mark Andrews
In message , Chris Thom pson writes: > We have had at least one person from ISC in the past saying they won't be > in any hurry to get rid of dlv.isc.org just because the root is signed. > [I'll try and find the reference(s) if anyone doubts that.] No doubt > they will stop importing the IANA ITAR

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Joe Abley
On 2009-10-07, at 16:25, Paul Hoffman wrote: At 2:22 PM +0100 10/7/09, Joe Abley wrote: From this perspective we might roll a ZSK more frequently than a KSK because the ZSK needs to be stored on-line to facilitate re- signing when the zone changes. With the KSK we have the option of keepin

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 05:33:59PM +0200, Roy Arends wrote a message of 19 lines which said: > Full deployment july 1st. That means inclusion of DS records. That's not what I understood from the talk and from the question and from the discussion IRL with Joe Abley afterwards. Was someone els

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread John Schnizlein
That was my question. Matt's answer was that he did not remember that detail of the design. Not remembering the detail that happened to be omitted from the slide is not really the same as not in the design. I am sure Matt and Joe know that signing the root means nothing without the DS re

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Jim Reid
On 7 Oct 2009, at 16:13, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: As someone in the public (at the RIPE meeting) mentioned, the timeline presented by ICANN/Verisign said nothing about the inclusion of DS records in the root (remember that each KSK rollover will require the prior approbation, in writing, of th

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:22 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > [from a namedroppers thread, re-pointed as per Olaf's suggestion below] > > On 2009-10-07, at 09:23, Olaf Kolkman wrote: > >> On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> >>> I don't have a general position on ZSKs--perhaps it's a good ide

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Roy Arends
On Oct 7, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 02:13:53PM +0200, Roy Arends wrote a message of 13 lines which said: Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? As someon

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Paul Hoffman
At 2:22 PM +0100 10/7/09, Joe Abley wrote: >From this perspective we might roll a ZSK more frequently than a KSK because >the ZSK needs to be stored on-line to facilitate re-signing when the zone >changes. With the KSK we have the option of keeping it off-line, and arguably >the risk of compromi

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 02:13:53PM +0200, Roy Arends wrote a message of 13 lines which said: > Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed > signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? As someone in the public (at the RIPE meeting) mentioned, the

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread joao damas
wasn't talking about DLV On 7 Oct 2009, at 14:44, Joe Baptista wrote: On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM, joao damas wrote: Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? I would hope it stays around. Hav

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Chris Thompson
On Oct 7 2009, joao damas wrote: On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:35, Jim Reid wrote: On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Roy Arends wrote: Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? Will DLV go away then too? DLV doesn'

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Joe Abley
On 2009-10-07, at 15:21, Roy Arends wrote: I find it worrying that folks intend to test or practice operational procedures by doing it often on a live production system. What if that test or practice fails? "Whoops, we were testing it on the live system, we failed, good thing we called it

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Roy Arends
On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Joe Abley wrote: On 2009-10-07, at 09:23, Olaf Kolkman wrote: On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: I don't have a general position on ZSKs--perhaps it's a good idea for some other reason--but I don't think that rolling the keys over at high rates pr

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Thierry Moreau
Joe Abley wrote: [from a namedroppers thread, re-pointed as per Olaf's suggestion below] On 2009-10-07, at 09:23, Olaf Kolkman wrote: On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: I don't have a general position on ZSKs--perhaps it's a good idea for some other reason--but I don't think t

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Joe Baptista
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM, joao damas wrote: > > Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed >> root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? >> > > I would hope it stays around. Having an "out of band" way of contrasting > the info in the root zon

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread joao damas
On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Roy Arends wrote: I understand that six month after root-signing is fully deployed, that the ITAR will cease to exist. Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? I would ho

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread joao damas
DLV doesn't only address the lack of a signed root. In fact I would argue that the (un)signed root is the smallest of the problems it addresses. Joao On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:35, Jim Reid wrote: On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Roy Arends wrote: Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Joe Abley
[from a namedroppers thread, re-pointed as per Olaf's suggestion below] On 2009-10-07, at 09:23, Olaf Kolkman wrote: On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: I don't have a general position on ZSKs--perhaps it's a good idea for some other reason--but I don't think that rolling the ke

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Tony Finch
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Jim Reid wrote: > On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Roy Arends wrote: > > > Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed > > root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? > > Will DLV go away then too? I doubt it because it's likely to still be

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea

2009-10-07 Thread Alfred Hönes
I already have posted a response to the original analysis by EKR, which has much overlap with the comments sent to this list by Olaf. Please see the original URL for the thread there, including my reasoning about operational impact and human factors: http://www.educatedguesswork.org/2009/10/on_th

Re: [DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Jim Reid
On 7 Oct 2009, at 13:13, Roy Arends wrote: Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? Will DLV go away then too? ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https

[DNSOP] Signing the root == end of ITAR?

2009-10-07 Thread Roy Arends
I understand that six month after root-signing is fully deployed, that the ITAR will cease to exist. Since a date was announced yesterday (July 1st) for a fully deployed signed root, can we expect ITAR to Go Away on Januari 1st 2011 ? Thanks, Roy ___

Re: [DNSOP] Key Management and Provisioningl was Re: .PR ...

2009-10-07 Thread Florian Weimer
* Roy Arends: > On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: > >> * Roy Arends: >> >>> At least for Nominet, I want (2) to do cross-checking, be able to >>> check what things look like before they enter the pipeline, >>> preferably >>> using the same channel as (1). Before I push the 'publish

Re: [DNSOP] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Chris Thompson
On Oct 7 2009, Olaf Kolkman wrote: [...] At 4:09 PM -0400 10/6/09, Nicholas Weaver wrote: Eric Rescorla has an explanation why the zone signing key rollover mechanism in DNSSEC for the root is a bad idea: It doesn't improve security and only makes things more complicated: http://www.educa

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Olaf Kolkman
On Oct 7, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: hope I can address a few of the issues before Yokohama. s/Yokohama/Hiroshima/ Should I call my travel office? ;-) --Olaf Olaf M. KolkmanNLnet Labs

Re: [DNSOP] Key Management and Provisioningl was Re: .PR ...

2009-10-07 Thread Roy Arends
On Oct 7, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: * Roy Arends: At least for Nominet, I want (2) to do cross-checking, be able to check what things look like before they enter the pipeline, preferably using the same channel as (1). Before I push the 'publish' button, I want to check it in p

Re: [DNSOP] [dnsext] Why ZSK rollover is a Bad Idea (tm)

2009-10-07 Thread Olaf Kolkman
On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix