Re: [dns-operations] DNS Attack over UDP fragmentation

2013-09-09 Thread Keith Mitchell
On 09/09/2013 06:07 AM, Haya Shulman wrote: > For instance, DNS-OARC does not detect port prediction attacks, and > reports clients as secure, while they are vulnerable to attacks. OARC does many things, I assume here you are referring to our port entropy tester: https://www.dns-oarc.ne

Re: [dns-operations] DNS Attack over UDP fragmentation

2013-09-09 Thread Joe Abley
On 2013-09-07, at 15:07, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Sat, 7 Sep 2013, Florian Weimer wrote: > >> Well, there aren't any plans to sign ROOT-SERVERS.NET, are there? > > Why sign that when you have the DNSKEY via the DS anyway. You shouldn't > care which IP answers and whether they can spoof it. If

Re: [dns-operations] dns-operations Digest, Vol 92, Issue 13

2013-09-09 Thread Vernon Schryver
> Now we (including me) have known the dangers and limitations, > so should we set max-udp-size to 1220 on every authoritative servers? Sometimes crazy conspiracy theories make too much sense. Please make up one of your own from some facts: - Some known major PKI failures were ostensibly in su

Re: [dns-operations] dns-operations Digest, Vol 92, Issue 13

2013-09-09 Thread Paul Vixie
... Yasuhiro Orange Morishita / 森下泰宏 wrote: > Paul-san, and folks, > > Now we (including me) have known the dangers and limitations, > so should we set max-udp-size to 1220 on every authoritative servers? for unsigned responses, i think a v6 max-udp-size of 1220 and a v4 max-udp-size of 512 is w

Re: [dns-operations] dns-operations Digest, Vol 92, Issue 13

2013-09-09 Thread Yasuhiro Orange Morishita / 森下泰宏
Paul-san, and folks, Now we (including me) have known the dangers and limitations, so should we set max-udp-size to 1220 on every authoritative servers? -- Orange From: Paul Vixie Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 04:47:44 -0700 > regrettably, the author of RFC 2671 knew the dangers and limitations of >

Re: [dns-operations] dns-operations Digest, Vol 92, Issue 13

2013-09-09 Thread Paul Vixie
regrettably, the author of RFC 2671 knew the dangers and limitations of fragmented IP, but specified it anyway. see especially: http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/WRL-87-3.html (where the authors of WRL-87-3 were two early mentors of the later author of RFC 2671, who not only ought to h

Re: [dns-operations] dns-operations Digest, Vol 92, Issue 13

2013-09-09 Thread Haya Shulman
Yasuhiro-san :-) Nice find, thanks for sharing!! I will add reference to it in our works. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:00 PM, wrote: > > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:30:57 +0900 (JST) > From: Yasuhiro Orange Morishita / < > yasuh...@jprs.co.jp> > To: aa...@arbor.net > Cc: dns-opera

Re: [dns-operations] DNS Attack over UDP fragmentation

2013-09-09 Thread Haya Shulman
You are right, proper randomisation is one property, and secure application thereof to real world systems is another. So, as you said, there are a number of requirements, which should be addressed, to ensure correct functionality and security, including having a sufficiently large range which the a

Re: [dns-operations] DNS Attack over UDP fragmentation

2013-09-09 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer
On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 09:44:34PM +0300, Haya Shulman wrote a message of 232 lines which said: > We studied the IPID randomisation on the name servers (not the resolvers). Just a warning: it's IPID _unpredictability_ (for a blind attacker) which is important. Randomisation can be bad because