Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Peter Duffy
I just wanted to thank all who responded to my post: the comments were extremely thought-provoking. One thing which came out often and confirmed my own view is that it takes a sysadmin to assess the capabilities of a sysadmin: for management to do so, without the input of the guys at the coal face,

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Peter Duffy said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:51:18 + >However, I gradually started to wonder. If it's the case >that most linux servers are getting upgraded to systemd-based releases, Downgraded. :-) SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Tro

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Peter Duffy said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:51:18 + > The >systemd "tools" drove me insane - it felt as though they were actively >preventing me from accessing the information I needed. Imagine if they made a car with the engine compartment welded shut, and gave you a little cockpit in the passe

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Peter Duffy said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:51:18 + >I've said it before and I'll say it again. All this could have been >avoided - if systemd had been made optional from day 1. People who >liked it could use it; people who didn't like it could use something >else. Email traffic to the systemd dev

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Peter Duffy
So customers pay to be insulated from complexity. Just so obviously a blatant restating of the M$ attitude - which is the reason why there are so many clueless computer users the world over, and by extension, so much cybercrime. But if systemd makes it more difficult to solve problems, and make

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Syeed Ali
On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 10:11:15 -0500 Steve Litt wrote: > Imagine if they made a car with the engine compartment welded shut, > and gave you a little cockpit in the passenger compartment to control > a robot inside the engine compartment that would do maintenance and > repairs. > > What could POSSI

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Syeed Ali
On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 10:35:13 -0500 Steve Litt wrote: > I quote then-Redhat CTO Brian Stevens: "Red Hat's model works because > of the complexity of the technology we work with." Create the problem, provide the solution. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.d

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Simon
Peter Duffy wrote: > So customers pay to be insulated from complexity. Just so obviously a > blatant restating of the M$ attitude - which is the reason why there are > so many clueless computer users the world over, and by extension, so > much cybercrime. That’s a “complicated” discussion. Take

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 25/11/2021 à 19:11, Simon a écrit : > So in some ways it’s a step along the road of making things easier for the > general user, or in this case, the power user or novice admin. So yes, the > user does get what they are asking for - but the downside is that when it > breaks, it’s harder to fi

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Syeed Ali
On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:11:09 + Simon wrote: > In the early days of motoring, you had a lot to learn and cars were > non-trivial to drive and to keep going - to the extent that many > users employed someone to do the driving for them. Roll forward > through the years, and cars have got more an

Re: [DNG] Menus: Was: What not to back up

2021-11-25 Thread viverna via Dng
il devuanizzato Steve Litt il 24-11-21 17:19:51 ha scritto: know this because I once tried to make a CLI (or maybe nCurses) version of dmenu and failed. SteveT Steve Litt A dmenu clone for the console: https://github.com/joshaw/slmenu Unfortunately the code has not been updated in years bu

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Peter Duffy said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:51:18 + >I can't add much to the description of the situation without violating >confidentiality constraints. However, I can say a few things about my >own position re. this. If it's TL:DR - apologies and no worries. Given the confidentiality constrain

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Syeed Ali said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 10:57:51 -0800 >On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:11:09 + >Simon wrote: > >> In the early days of motoring, you had a lot to learn and cars were >> non-trivial to drive and to keep going - to the extent that many >> users employed someone to do the driving for them. Ro

Re: [DNG] Menus: Was: What not to back up

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
viverna via Dng said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 20:35:34 +0100 >il devuanizzato Steve Litt il 24-11-21 >17:19:51 ha scritto: >>know this because I once tried to make a CLI (or maybe nCurses) >>version of dmenu and failed. >> >>SteveT >> >>Steve Litt >A dmenu clone for the console: > >https://github.co

Re: [DNG] system administration of non-systemd distros and releases

2021-11-25 Thread Steve Litt
Simon said on Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:11:09 + >Peter Duffy wrote: > >> So customers pay to be insulated from complexity. Just so obviously a >> blatant restating of the M$ attitude - which is the reason why there >> are so many clueless computer users the world over, and by >> extension, so much