> I will reiterate my earlier comment. For those who believe that Devuan
> is somehow lacking without GNOME et. al., Debian is a short download
> away.
Debian is a dead end. It got too mired in anal-retentive process that
reinforced its inward-facing nature.
Devuan is the one distribution that w
Am Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 schrieb Bruce Perens:
> > I agree, that 90% of the people are hapy with limited choice. But as you
> already said, that field is served by apple and M$. No > need for us to
> follow down that road. Salvation is not on to be found on the highway :-)
>
> What you are sayin
> One of the greatest problems in Free Software is that, so far, we make it
> just for us. So, we are the only folks who use it, and we don't get the
> rest of the world to use Free Software, and we lose out on any number of
> important things because of that. Important things for the* world,* and
> If "we" want increase the number of outsiders to be part of the
ecosystem, then do it on our terms
:-)
You can't do it *all *on your terms. Because nobody would come at all. But
you can have what's important to you.
Apple actually didn't win because it had a big marketing department and
psycho
Bruce Perens wrote:
> Apple actually didn't win because it had a big marketing department and
> psychologists. Just Steve. I worked with Steve for 12 years, and during part
> of that time had an office right across from his at Pixar. Steve understood a
> lot of stuff that would help Free Softw
I wrote:
> What you appear to be suggesting is that for the sake of the 95%, the 5%
> should not be permitted to "fix" things to work as they want them to work.
> And that if we do customise then we'd be unable to understand that what we
> are running isn't the standard UI. Yes there will be so
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:18:07AM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > If "we" want increase the number of outsiders to be part of the
> ecosystem, then do it on our terms
>
> :-)
>
> You can't do it *all *on your terms. Because nobody would come at all. But
> you can have what's important to you.
>
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 14:44:34, KatolaZ wrote:
> Steve Jobs understood that users must be won with eyecandies, and on
> that side we will never be able to beat Apple. Not because Free
> Software cannot produce better eyecandies, but because the newly-won
> users, lured through eyecandies, w
Am 2017-06-21 14:44, schrieb KatolaZ:
Steve Jobs understood that users must be won with eyecandies, and on
that side we will never be able to beat Apple.
That's very right, but you missed 2 points: Apple makes this eyecandy
not only in software, but also in hardware. And they made their produc
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 15:08:38, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
> This will never happen with Gnome on Linux and some 0815 hardware.
Sorry, what's that? Google doesn't give me any clues...
Antony.
--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.
- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connectio
08/15 is a common german expression for "plain vanilla".
Zitat von Antony Stone :
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 15:08:38, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
This will never happen with Gnome on Linux and some 0815 hardware.
Sorry, what's that? Google doesn't give me any clues...
Antony.
--
I want to
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 15:21:17, rain...@wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de wrote:
> 08/15 is a common german expression for "plain vanilla".
Aha - danke - ich habe seit ungefähr acht Jahre in Köln gewohnt, aber kannte
diesen Ausdruck so weit nicht...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/08/15_(Redewendung)
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:21:17 +
rain...@wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de wrote:
> 08/15 is a common german expression for "plain vanilla".
Reference to the 08/15 rifle still in use during the second world war; re-read
Hans Hellmut Kirst.
Cheers,
Ron.
--
Toddlers are the stor
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:32:52 -0400
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> > 08/15 is a common german expression for "plain vanilla".
> Reference to the 08/15 rifle still in use during the second world war;
> re-read Hans Hellmut Kirst.
Sorry, machine gun, not rifle.
Cheers,
Ron.
--
Quoting Renaud OLGIATI (ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org):
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:32:52 -0400
> Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
>
> > > 08/15 is a common german expression for "plain vanilla".
>
> > Reference to the 08/15 rifle still in use during the second world
> > war; re-read Hans Hellmut Kir
On 2017-06-21 02:02, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 schrieb Bruce Perens:
> I agree, that 90% of the people are hapy with limited choice. But as you
already said, that field is served by apple and M$. No > need for us
to
follow down that road. Salvation is not on to be fou
About the time I started working on Free Software, I also founded *No-Code
International* with the goal of eliminating Morse Code exams as a
requirement for the ham radio license, worldwide. This required a change in
international law, the International Telecommunications Treaty of the ITU,
a UN or
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:54:48 +0200, Antony wrote in message
<201706211454.48985.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>:
> On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 14:44:34, KatolaZ wrote:
>
> > Steve Jobs understood that users must be won with eyecandies, and on
> > that side we will never be able to beat Appl
KatolaZ wrote:
> Beyond the legends, Apple wins because they have always treated their
> users like monkeys to be locked in (something that they have been
> extremely successful at), and have focused on an extremely reduced set
> of supported hardware.
Being a bit pedantic, but for completeness
Am Mittwoch, 21. Juni 2017 schrieb Bruce Perens:
> Our side won. Today there are more hams in the US than ever before in
> history, and we are no longer expecting the demise of Ham Radio.
One looles, one wins: in Germany the number of Ham operators decreased by 15%
in the last 8 years.
Nik
--
Nice story but . . . removing a constraint is not the same as imposing
them.
golinux
On 2017-06-21 11:06, Bruce Perens wrote:
About the time I started working on Free Software, I also founded
_No-Code International_ with the goal of eliminating Morse Code exams
as a requirement for the ham r
Not to derail this thread further, but I will say that once I became a
volunteer examiner, after passing the 20 WPM exam in 1992, that watching
most people struggle with the Morse exam caused me to change my mind on
that issue and I supported Restructuring in 2000 and the Morse exam
elimination in
Il 21/06/2017 alle 07:20, KatolaZ ha scritto:
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:12:32PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> I will reiterate my earlier comment. For those who believe that Devuan
>> is somehow lacking without GNOME et. al., Debian is a short download
>> away. I say that not
> > If "we" want increase the number of outsiders to be part of the
> ecosystem, then do it on our terms
>
> :-)
>
> You can't do it *all *on your terms. Because nobody would come at all. But
> you can have what's important to you.
Not true :-) Exhibit 1A: RMS. He has his supporters. You may
qui
Le 21/06/2017 à 08:32, Bruce Perens a écrit :
It's because the community that GNOME is serving is /not you. /And it
is very, very important for Free Software to serve a community that is
not like us!
With all due respect, I think there is a confusion here about the
word "free" in "free s
On 21/06/2017 at 18:06, Bruce Perens wrote:
[...]
> I do seem to hear a lot of the same sentiment as the pro-code guys in this
> discussion. And I know where that goes. We didn't dumb anything down, we
> just got people to participate. And everything was better for it.
I take you read the igno
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 at 23:58:26, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On 21/06/2017 at 18:06, Bruce Perens wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I do seem to hear a lot of the same sentiment as the pro-code guys in
> > this discussion. And I know where that goes. We didn't dumb anything
> > down, we just got people
Quoting Antony Stone (antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it):
> You're quite right - the Gnome devs are not getting people to participate
> (unless they already fit the required mindset).
In addition to what Alessandro listed, they also have made very clear
they'll reject code patches that support,
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