Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
>
>> To re-iterate this:
>
> [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
> that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' into unrelated
> applications -- which assertion in my view does
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I think what he means, is that it allows devs/packagers to insert
> these calls and still have something that runs when systemd itself
> isn't installed. Not that the lib itself installs such calls.
First, thanks. (I seriously wasn't trying to ign
A library is code, data, fixups (I think that's the wrong word, sorry) and
a little bit of red tape for the file format.
Fixups are changes to be made at runtime by the dynamic linker in order to
make sure the code and calls work correctly at the runtime-assigned
address(es). It may include lo
Hi Karl,
On 07/25/2016 09:16 AM, "dev1fanboy" wrote:
There is none really so far, I did start some instructions a little while ago
but there is a problem with the gitlab at the moment stopping the viewing of
that page.
https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/maintaine
Rick Moen wrote:
>> With a lib, is there any code or is it *JUST* a set of symbols ?
> This is a pretty good introduction to how libraries work and what they
> can contain:
> http://www.skyfree.org/linux/references/ELF_Format.pdf
Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
Hi Karl,
I am the person who wrote simple-netaid. If you want, I offer to help you.
Edward
--
Those who abuse me will be banned immediately from my email account.
Here, I am communicating with supposedly intelligent adults who are
responsible for their actions.
_
Le 25/07/2016 01:29, Rainer Weikusat a écrit :
Sleeping on a contended mutex is implemented in this way. But that's
supposed to be an exceptional case.
This is why, while advertizing itself as a cool "don't care"
feature, a mutex is problematic: the programmer should make sure
contention
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 07:39:58 +0200, Klaus wrote in message
<5fcaf78f-839d-05dc-04ab-750e0d35b...@arcor.de>:
> Arnt Karlsen schrieb am 25.07.2016 um 00:18:
> > ..I'm on ascii with daemon-version: 0.99.4, and it's been stuck
> > there for a few months, do I need to downgrade or some such?
>
> De
Simon Hobson writes:
Yes, the latter wouldn't make much sense, but it's possible ?
It's possible. Simplfying a little, an executable on linux is just a shared
library that contains a function called main() (yes I know I'm simplifying,
PLEASE let's not argue these details). A library can do an
Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> A library can do anything the executable can.
Which is what I thought.
So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do anything" then
that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once anything calls one of it's
functions, then that library can do lot
Relax ;) Devuan pulls libc from debian. The next version of libsystemd
could do anything, but some of the same people can put the same code in
debian's libc. And libc is a great deal more difficult to audit, too.
For the record, I think getting rid of libsystemd is a good thing. It's
tidy. Bug
Le 25/07/2016 00:55, Steve Litt a écrit :
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:30:47 +0200
Didier Kryn wrote:
Le 24/07/2016 22:37, Jaromil a écrit :
nowadays the closures paradigm (basically fifo pipes of pointers to
stateless functions) is used much more than all that mutex and
semaphore old stuff. i.e
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:37:12AM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Hi Rainer,
>
> could you describe how this could be used to, say, make all applications
> that link with libsystemd print "Hello world!" in addition to their normal
> function?
Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something
Hendrik Boom writes:
Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something about the loading
process that I don't know. (Maybe C++ has something special for module
initialization?)
No, nothing that special.
But if an application is linked with libsystemd, it is likely to call
one of the libsy
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 02:17:01PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Hendrik Boom writes:
> >Just linking isn't enough, unless there's something about the loading
> >process that I don't know. (Maybe C++ has something special for module
> >initialization?)
>
> No, nothing that special.
>
> >But i
Le 25/07/2016 15:17, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit :
OK, so what makes libsystemd different from libc, which comes from the
same source?
Not the same source: libc comes from GNU (and there are alternatives),
while libsystemd comes from Lennart and the Red Hats.
Didier
__
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 25/07/2016 00:55, Steve Litt a écrit :
> >On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:30:47 +0200
> >Didier Kryn wrote:
> >
> >>Le 24/07/2016 22:37, Jaromil a écrit :
> >>>nowadays the closures paradigm (basically fifo pipes of pointers to
> >>>stateless functions) is used
On 25-07-16 15:22, Hendrik Boom wrote:
It is a matter of trust, not of what is technically feasible. Does one
trust the libc developers more than the libsystemd developers?
-- hendrik
___
That question is not very hard to answer.
Grtz.
Nick
__
thanks for the tips
Last week I made a deb network-manager without systemd and I have it
running in xfce or kde.
If interested, I can provide the diffs to devuan.
I will try with simple-netaid, but this is different to rebuild an existing
package.
Regards
2016-07-25 6:42 GMT-03:00 Edward Barto
Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> OK, so what makes libsystemd different from libc, which comes from the same
>> source? libc is stored in the same directory on the same debian servers...
>
> It is a matter of trust, not of what is technically feasible.
Exactly
> Does one trust the libc developers more t
To expand a bit on what I wrote earlier - now it's finally condensed into
something resembling a coherent thought.
Suppose, with SystemD running they decided to break normal syslog calls. Ie,
they made it so that a program could not call syslog, but instead had to use a
SystemD call. Given the
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 12:21:00 -0400
Brian Nash wrote:
> This describes a problem I used to have perfectly.
>
> For example, when I discovered multithreading, all my programs used it
> in some way, even when it was unnecessary.
>
> This might be the root of all the problems we are facing with
> c
Le 25/07/2016 16:26, Simon Hobson a écrit :
I don't think even Poettering cold get away with deprecating the existing
syslog call - force EVERY binary to change to not use syslog ?
I bet this is already done. I mean there's no need to use another
API than syslog. There are already several
Le 25/07/2016 18:06, Steve Litt a écrit :
Complexity has costs that must be paid. Before including any
complexity, I ask myself "can I pay the freight?" Can I afford the
decreased repairability? Can I afford the decreased readability? Am I
ready to document how it works, so a well meaning future
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
Well, if you want to learn the subject, there's an irreducible minimum
of complexity, you know, but it was mostly a citation I gave as an
accuracy cross-check on my ultra-quick extempor
Hi all,
This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
https://sanitarium.net/x.png
SteveT
Steve Litt
July 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
___
Dng mai
http://entornosgnulinux.com/2016/07/25/como-instalar-bunsenlabs-hydrogen-en-devuan-gnulinux-1-0-jessie/
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 02:07:07PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
>
> https://sanitarium.net/x.png
Whose kernel tree is this?
Not in Linus', and googling that phrase shows nothing.
--
An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy.
___
On 25-07-16 20:07, Steve Litt wrote:
Hi all,
This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
https://sanitarium.net/x.png
SteveT
Steve Litt
July 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 09:41:44PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 02:07:07PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
> >
> > https://sanitarium.net/x.png
>
> Whose kernel tree is this?
>
> Not in Linus', and googling that phrase s
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:39:58AM +0200, Klaus Fuerstberger wrote:
> Arnt Karlsen schrieb am 25.07.2016 um 00:18:
> > ..I'm on ascii with daemon-version: 0.99.4, and it's been stuck
> > there for a few months, do I need to downgrade or some such?
>
> Devuan 1.0 ships with upower 0.9.23. AFAIK n
On 07/25/2016 01:35 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
>
>> Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
>
> Well, if you want to learn the subject, there's an irreducible minimum
> of complexity, you know, but it was mostly a citation I gave a
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Yeah, that was me, and it was based on partially incorrect testing. I set
> the permissions to 000 on the wrong target. The test with the dummy
> libsystemd0 package worked great to fulfill the package dependency and
> allowed me to install gvfs, but gvfs
Le 25/07/2016 23:35, fsmithred a écrit :
Either way, it
looks like libsystemd is passively providing code for something else to
use.
Calling a function does not mean that this function passively
provides code to the caller. What happens is (simplified) the program
counter (the address from
On 07/25/2016 06:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
>
> https://sanitarium.net/x.png
>
Support for init systems, system and service managers:
[*] OpenRC, runit and other script based systems and managers
[ ] systemd
This looks like a h
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:06:09PM +, hellekin wrote:
> On 07/25/2016 06:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
> >
> > https://sanitarium.net/x.png
>
> Support for init systems, system and service managers:
>
> [*] OpenRC, runit and other script b
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 23:05:35 +0200, Adam wrote in message
<20160725210535.gc15...@angband.pl>:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:39:58AM +0200, Klaus Fuerstberger wrote:
> > Arnt Karlsen schrieb am 25.07.2016 um 00:18:
> > > ..I'm on ascii with daemon-version: 0.99.4, and it's been stuck
> > > there
On 07/26/2016 08:03 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:06:09PM +, hellekin wrote:
On 07/25/2016 06:07 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
This is a screenshot of my buddy's kernel menuconfig:
https://sanitarium.net/x.png
Support for init systems, system and service managers:
[*] Open
On 26/07/16 10:27, Simon Walter wrote:
Is that really the case? Did the Debian leadership do a poll to find out
what their users wanted and who were their typical users?
Desktop/personal vs. server/professional? Did they consult their package
survey stats?
I wasn't participating in those discus
On 07/26/2016 12:28 PM, Brad Campbell wrote:
On 26/07/16 10:27, Simon Walter wrote:
Is that really the case? Did the Debian leadership do a poll to find out
what their users wanted and who were their typical users?
Desktop/personal vs. server/professional?
yes/no?
Did they consult their pac
Adam Borowski schrieb am 25.07.2016 um 23:05:
>> Devuan 1.0 ships with upower 0.9.23. AFAIK newer daemon versions only
>> support systemd-based installations.
>
> I believe checking power levels does still work in 0.99, although I can't
> check right now (my only laptop is a flaky piece of arm wit
Friends,
This is the most determining battle. If Devuan wins, nothing will defeat us.
Edward
--
Those who abuse me will be banned immediately from my email account.
Here, I am communicating with supposedly intelligent adults who are
responsible for their actions.
___
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:27:20 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
> We need to drive a wedge into the FOSS community and separate the
> desktop users from the professionals. I am sorry to be divisive, but
> the water is under the bridge and the damage has already been done.
You might find it interesting
Le 26/07/2016 04:27, Simon Walter a écrit :
"Here's the thing: most users will be entirely happy with fully
uncustomized systemd. It will suspend your laptop if you close the
lid, and even give your download manager veto power. I fully support
Debian's decision to use systemd as the default ini
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