Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

hi T.J. On 6 April 2015 01:37:23 CEST, "T.J. Duchene" wrote: > Fortunately, the Linux equivalents are user >account >based rather than system wide and can easily be cloned, modified, or if >necessary dumped. are you sure about this? every time I tried to port my desktop settings in gconf to new

Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!

On 04/06/2015 06:10 AM, Neo Futur wrote: I certainly would not >> put it on server without serious thought, but I do not think that I would be >> overly concerned about it on >> the desktop. > Same here I accept it on my mageia laptop, i dont really care the nsa > knowing everything of me ( they

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 09:27:57AM +0200, Jaromil wrote: > hi T.J. > > On 6 April 2015 01:37:23 CEST, "T.J. Duchene" wrote: > > Fortunately, the Linux equivalents are user > >account > >based rather than system wide and can easily be cloned, modified, or if > >necessary dumped. > > > are you su

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

> What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically > born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince > us that systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and *necessary*? I don't > want to be

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:46:45AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically > > born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince > > us that

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon 06 April 2015 10:06:49 KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:46:45AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: > > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically > > > born to throw systemd away. D

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

> > Looks to me like he isn't arguing for systemd, but he is just discussing > > systems designs and implementation. Also looks to me like he is simply > > keeping an open mind, and not getting swept away in hate either way > > ...while I am getting swept away in hate? :) I admit I like very mu

Re: [Dng] What do you guys think about "Suggest" and "Recommends" dependency?

On Thu, Apr 02, 2015 at 07:43:26PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Franco Lanza [mailto:next...@nexlab.it] > > Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 5:36 PM > > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > > Subject: [Dng] What do you guys think about "Suggest" and "Recommends" > > de

Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!

> -Original Message- > From: neofu...@ww7.be [mailto:neofu...@ww7.be] On Behalf Of Neo > Futur > Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 11:10 PM > To: T.J. Duchene > Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated! > > I m a gentoo and mageia user ( but I donated half a bitco

Re: [Dng] Devuan's release date ?

kato...@freaknet.org writes: ... So if you are thinking of using Devuan for production, ... And if I'm not stupid enough to do that, then your entire response is void, right? Please don't assume stupidity in the context of Devuan. Devuan attacts people who have good enough taste in software

Re: [Dng] Devuan's release date ?

Isaac Dunham writes: On one of my installs I included this in sources.list: Thank you very much. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

[Dng] Currency option for PayPal Donation

Hello Everybody, My PayPal account is in EUR and the donations recorded in the balance sheet of Devuan are all in EUR currency, a part from the Bitcoin donation of course. I have tried to a few months back and I just tried it again to donate a few moments ago, but there is still no option to

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 11:46:45 +0300 Martijn Dekkers wrote: > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork > > specifically born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be > > able to convince us that syste

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:24:54 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > Please by all means avoid "friendly fire" towards shots you hear in > front of you - it's not the enemy, it's just your peers, we're all > looking (and fighting) same direction. > > BR > /j Joerg, When the organization has made a

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon 06 April 2015 11:01:10 Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:24:54 +0200 > > Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > Please by all means avoid "friendly fire" towards shots you hear in > > front of you - it's not the enemy, it's just your peers, we're all > > looking (and fighting) same directio

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

So, let me get this right - it is frowned upon on this list to mention anything of the following regarding systemd: - Any potentially positive attributes of systemd; - Any potentially valid use-cases of systemd; - Any possible non-deranged systemd developers; - Any reasons distro's might have to ad

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

> When the organization has made a foundational policy decision, so they > can move forward and implement that policy, yet somebody keeps trying > to open up that policy to further debate, is that somebody's fire > really friendly? Are they looking and fighting in the same direction, > or are they

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

Martijn Dekkers writes: I just see a frank and open discussion of a topic that is one way or the other important to all of us. Which topic is that? Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/d

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

Am Sonntag, 5. April 2015, 18:37:23 schrieb T.J. Duchene: > > -Original Message- > > From: Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI [mailto:ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org] > > Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 5:34 PM > > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > > Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : syst

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

Am Sonntag, 5. April 2015, 19:52:32 schrieb Jude Nelson: > If I ever write a desktop suite, it will store settings as a > well-defined directory tree with human-meaningful file names and > contents instead of a MySQL database or a large flat opaque file. > > That's just me, though. Jude. Thats KD

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 09:38:06AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically > born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince > us that systemd is *goo

Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Neo Futur wrote: > Same here I accept it on my mageia laptop, i dont really care the nsa > knowing everything of me ( they already have > http://leaksource.info/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/ > )

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 10:55:12 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > But to what point? Devuan was born in, OK, I'll use your > characterization, hate, of systemd. No, hate of the lack of choice. Cheers, Ron. -- Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Martijn Dekkers < devuan-li...@dekkers.org.uk> wrote: [snip] > It really is a pity. The VUA and guys like Jude do awesome work bringing > the state-of-the-art forward when it comes to actually building working > technology that does not depend on systemd, whilst t

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

Should have said in the earlier email: the list of contributors I gave earlier is definitely not all-encompassing, nor was it meant to be (I was trying to give an example of other people working towards a systemd-free future, and those were the first few people that came to mind). This is why a w

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

> -Original Message- > From: Jaromil [mailto:jaro...@dyne.org] > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 2:28 AM > To: T.J. Duchene; dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd > > hi T.J. > > On 6 April 2015 01:37:23 CEST, "T.J. Duchene" > wrote: > >

[Dng] [dng] vdev status update

Hey everyone, Scooby, John Carline, lepoitr, and others (who wish to remain anonymous) have been sending me logs filesystem listings from running vdev locally. I very much appreciate it--it helped me discover and fix bugs relating to persistent paths for disk devices, seeding /dev with initial de

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

> > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically born > to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince us that > systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and *necessary*? I don't want to

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:24:54 +0200 > Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > > >> Please by all means avoid "friendly fire" towards shots you hear in >> front of you - it's not the enemy, it's just your peers, we're all >> looking (and fighting) same direct

[Dng] Contact

Anyone wants to contact me is certainly welcome to do so off of the Devuan list, on any subject they please. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I believe that it is in Devuan's best interest that I leave. By removing myself from the list, legitimate conversation can continue. I'm still interest

Re: [Dng] Contact

Hey TJ, I'm very sorry to see you go. Yours is an experienced and balanced voice that this young community needs more of. On 7 April 2015 at 00:04, T.J. Duchene wrote: > Anyone wants to contact me is certainly welcome to do so off of the Devuan > list, on any subject they please. > > I’m not try

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:24:54AM +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: [cut] > > Please by all means avoid "friendly fire" towards shots you hear in front of > you - it's not the enemy, it's just your peers, we're all looking (and > fighting) same direction. > I'm sorry but I just don't see the

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon 06 April 2015 15:50:38 T.J. Duchene wrote: > think it would be best if I simply left the list by the end of the day. please don't! /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https

Re: [Dng] Contact

On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 12:16:38AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: > Hey TJ, I'm very sorry to see you go. Yours is an experienced and balanced > voice that this young community needs more of. I don't see why anybody should leave this list. I apologise if some of my answers might have been too direc

[Dng] Who/what is welcome on this list?

T.J. Duchene wrote: > I am getting the general impression from on and off the list, that my > comments are not welcome here, and that my continued presence is a > distraction. Very well. I was going to give it some more thought, but I > think it would be best if I simply left the list by the end o

Re: [Dng] devuan security wishlist item

On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 11:16:49AM +0100, Godefridus Daalmans wrote: > Talking about security and ttys and login: > > I would like Devuan to have a clear documentation and good defaults > for the Secure Attention Key (SAK). > > E.g. that any user at the console can expect to do Ctrl-Alt-SysRq-K >

Re: [Dng] Contact

I think this is apropos: "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" George Santayana We are beginning to sound like the Debian User Forum: http://forums.debian.net/search.php?search_id=active_topics What is going to make Devuan

Re: [Dng] [OT]I have been liberated!

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Neo Futur wrote: >> Same here I accept it on my mageia laptop, i dont really care the nsa >> knowing everything of me ( they already have >> http://leaksource.info/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-expl

Re: [Dng] Who/what is welcome on this list?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Joel Roth wrote: > We have few enough VUAs already that it seems wasteful to > hound out qualified folks who have diverse views and happen > to be prolific posters. I don't know nor care what the drama was about for whoever-he-is to leave. He's free to join, he's

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:50 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote: > > > >> >> What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just >> continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork specifically > born >> to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be able to convince us that >> syst

Re: [Dng] devuan security wishlist item

Hendrik Boom wrote: On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 11:16:49AM +0100, Godefridus Daalmans wrote: Talking about security and ttys and login: I would like Devuan to have a clear documentation and good defaults for the Secure Attention Key (SAK). E.g. that any user at the console can expect to do Ctrl-Al

Re: [Dng] Who/what is welcome on this list?

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:46:54AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote: [cut] > > Regardless of the immediate outcome, it is worth asking > what, exactly, is the problem with T.J.'s posts. > > I see much harder fought battles on the perl5-porters over > technical decisions. People may be temporarily bann

Re: [Dng] devuan security wishlist item

On Mon 06 April 2015 18:47:46 Miles Fidelman wrote: > I have the magic list written on sticky, underneath my > keyboard try Ctrl+Alt+SysReq+Shift for online help, no need for sticky notes (actually every key that's not already assigned does the trick, no matter if Shift or any other except those

Re: [Dng] devuan security wishlist item

On Tue 07 April 2015 01:29:13 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > On Mon 06 April 2015 18:47:46 Miles Fidelman wrote: > > I have the magic list written on sticky, underneath my > > keyboard > > try Ctrl+Alt+SysReq+Shift for online help, no need for sticky notes > (actually every key that's not already assi

Re: [Dng] devuan security wishlist item

> Wasn't there a whole seqence of ctrl-alt-letter things to gradually > shut down the entire system, layer by layer? Antybody still know > these, and are they still there? Ah yes, the "magic keys." Holding down Alt and SysRq (which is the Print Screen key) while slowly typing REISUB will get you

Re: [Dng] Too many man pages, too much complicated : systemd

On 04/06/2015 04:23 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: > Second, I can't take all the credit :) Besides the VUA collective > (Jaromil, Nextime, Hellekin, and others?), there's also: > *** I'm not VUA. They are genuine spaghetti-raised Italians, I'm just an exiled Piemontese from the XVth Century. I can bar

[Dng] dev-list

Hi, I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules. The Drama-to-Noise ratio is getting pretty high pretty frequently, and IRC just doesn't work for many people. pretty-please? I am happy to donate time, effor

Re: [Dng] Contact

On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 10:36:56PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > I simply think that at the moment energies could be spent in a more > productive way than in trying to identify all the good technical > aspects of systemd (which might indeed be numerous). We still don't > have a systemd-free distribution,

Re: [Dng] dev-list

On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 09:25:47AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: > Hi, > > I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to > see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules. The > Drama-to-Noise ratio is getting pretty high pretty frequently, and IRC just > d