Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> I have two reasons someone (not me, but somebody) would prefer to start
> up in a GUI:
>
> 1) Some members of my family consider it an immense challenge to have
>to remember to input their username and password at the console,
>recognize t
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 00:40:13 +0200
aitor_czr wrote:
> On 07/19/2016 07:38 PM, Robert Storey wrote:
> > About SLIM as a display manager - I'm fine with it, even if it's
> > not really maintained. The important thing is that it's fast,
> > stable, not riddled with security holes (including systemd
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:23:47 -1000
Joel Roth wrote:
> emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> > And as i said before, lxdm is nearly equally leightweight as slim
> > and as far as i see not really systemd infected - yet (?).
>
> Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
> and startx?
I
On 20/07/16 05:24, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:03:24 +1200
> Daniel Reurich wrote:
>
>
>> LTSP provides more then just financial benefits. I maintain 3 sites
>> using it for computer hubs that provide basic internet access and
>> computer skills training. The benefits of that ce
On 07/19/2016 07:38 PM, Robert Storey wrote:
About SLIM as a display manager - I'm fine with it, even if it's not really
maintained. The important thing is that it's fast, stable, not riddled with
security holes (including systemd). I'm open though to changing to
something better, if there is
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:06:11 +
schrieb Jaromil :
> but then one really needs to be pro-active about it here. So: if
> anyone wants a DM that is not packaged, even before asking for it
> should do an effort at its packaging.
lxdm is there already (in ascii but not jessie). I tried to do a
conf
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Yeah, I know there's a lot of gnome in xfce, and gnome virtual file
> system does sound familiar. Happily, I've been getting along fine
> without gvfs since upgrading to devuan jessie about six months ago.
> I'm ok with xfce like this, and I'm ok with a p
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:57:35 +
schrieb Joel Roth :
> emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> > And as i said before, lxdm is nearly equally leightweight as slim
> > and as far as i see not really systemd infected - yet (?).
>
> Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
> and startx?
On 07/19/2016 01:51 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
>
>> Rick, I don't understand your reasoning here. What I see is that gvfs
>> can do something when the real libsystemd0 is installed that it can't
>> do without libsystemd0 - that is, it shows removable drives on
Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Joel Roth wrote:
>
> > Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
> > and startx?
>
> good question I wasn't daring to pose so far.
>
> login and startx (and ~/.xinitrc configuration) work like a charm on
> Devuan... and anywhere else FWIW. p
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> OK, I think I see. I was assuming that there's no graphical terminal
> cheaper than a cheap commodity computer with mobo. To the extent that
> there are graphical terminals cheaper than commodity computers, it
> makes sense.
Yeah, well, you put yo
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:57:41PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
>
> > Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and
> > coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected
> > Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded.
>
>
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Joel Roth wrote:
> Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
> and startx?
good question I wasn't daring to pose so far.
login and startx (and ~/.xinitrc configuration) work like a charm on
Devuan... and anywhere else FWIW. plus give you the big advantage of
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Multiseat is unimportant, barely significant. The price of computers
> has dropped enough that the ones with UIs are now personal
> devices. The architecture of backends has changed such that UIDs
> aren't used for customer IDs.
> A few exceptions re
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:57:41PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
>
> > Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and
> > coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected
> > Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded.
>
>
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
> Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and
> coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected
> Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded.
I think anyone here should stop taking conversations in DNG as
represe
emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> And as i said before, lxdm is nearly equally leightweight as slim and
> as far as i see not really systemd infected - yet (?).
Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
and startx?
--
Joel Roth
___
Dng
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:38:16 +
schrieb Robert Storey :
> About SLIM as a display manager - I'm fine with it, even if it's not
> really maintained. The important thing is that it's fast, stable, not
> riddled with security holes (including systemd). I'm open though to
> changing to something be
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:41 +
schrieb Steve Litt :
> The older I get, the more I think the easiest route is to use
> wpa_passphrase, then, as root, append its output
> into /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf. Crude but effective.
> Travelling wifi on laptops is a mess, always has been.
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:41 +
schrieb Rob Owens :
> You got me interested and I just installed OpenRC on Devuan Jessie.
> I got the following message:
>
> **
> *** WARNING: if you are replacing sysv-rc by OpenRC, then you mu
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:59:26 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
>
> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:08:01 -0700
> > Rick Moen wrote:
> >
> > > It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host
> > > w/console stations having the independent local pro
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:08:01 -0700
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host w/console
> > stations having the independent local processing ability that mere
> > consoles lack' category, of course. Was
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Rick, I don't understand your reasoning here. What I see is that gvfs
> can do something when the real libsystemd0 is installed that it can't
> do without libsystemd0 - that is, it shows removable drives on the
> desktop. The presence of systemd itself i
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > Remember that bit I posted about how /usr/bin/ssh makes dynamic library
> > calls to sonames of two Kerberos libraries, even on the overwhelming
> > majority of systems that do not implement Kerberos?
> ...
> > 'Trust' in the
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:08:01 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
>
> > Where does Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP,
> > http://www.ltsp.org/) fit into this discussion?
>
> It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host w/console
> stations
This discussion (which started with just documenting what you could do at
the login screen) has certainly taken on a life of its own.
For my own needs, I'm not concerned about multiseat, but recognize that a
few (probably very few) others are.
I suppose if you really want to protect against a sin
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:03:24 +1200
Daniel Reurich wrote:
> LTSP provides more then just financial benefits. I maintain 3 sites
> using it for computer hubs that provide basic internet access and
> computer skills training. The benefits of that centralisation both of
> the applications platform
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> Where does Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP, http://www.ltsp.org/)
> fit into this discussion?
It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host w/console
stations having the independent local processing ability that mere
consoles la
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 01:29:23 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
> > Simon Walter writes:
> >
> >> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
> >> mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
> >
> > Quite likel
Quoting Tomasz Torcz (to...@pipebreaker.pl):
> So it would be sensible to ask for root password IF there are other
> (remote) users logged in. If there is no one logged in, shutdown/reboot
> should be possible without entering root password.
You speak as if the consequences of host shutdown (or
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:02:46 +0200
wrote:
> May be you remember, i also tried Void but, may be due to my linuxwise
> incompetence, i found it not so easy to configure and sometimes (for
> the wpasupplicant/dhcpcd thing) confusing.
Void Linux is very difficult the first month or two you use it.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:17:32 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
> On 07/19/2016 11:53 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> ...
> > All that talk about multiseat being important or even relevant
> > today is IMO bullshit.
> ...
>
> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to mind.
> There is th
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:25:59PM +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
[cut]
>
> So it would be sensible to ask for root password IF there are other
> (remote) users logged in. If there is no one logged in, shutdown/reboot
> should be possible without entering root password.
> Above heuristic could
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:25:59 +0200
Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:43:51PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting Brad Campbell (lists2...@fnarfbargle.com):
> >
> > > This is one I find interesting. I've never used an operating
> > > system where it was required to know root creden
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 1:12 PM, wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On the road to a viable jwm desktop in devuan, i am using/trying
> open-rc. In advance, my excuses if what follows is not sufficiently
> technical.
>
> To the point: From Manjaro-OpenRC i knew openrc as a clean and logical
> system to manage daemo
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:43:51PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Brad Campbell (lists2...@fnarfbargle.com):
>
> > This is one I find interesting. I've never used an operating system
> > where it was required to know root credentials to halt or reboot the
> > machine from the login screen.
>
>
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 03:03:35PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> >I guess this is exactly what "multi-seat" means: severall keyboards and
> > severall grapical cards connected to the same host. It certainly does not
> > include serial terminals. Serial terminal fall in
Didier Kryn wrote:
>I guess this is exactly what "multi-seat" means: severall keyboards and
> severall grapical cards connected to the same host. It certainly does not
> include serial terminals. Serial terminal fall in the category "multi-user",
> like ssh connections, not "multi-seat".
>
> I can say with authority that multiseat doesn't have any value *for
> me*. I looked into it a long time ago and decided that LTSP was
> more straightforward. These days, prices of hardware have come down
> enough that other people replace their computers after only a few
> years and I get
On 07/19/2016 07:30 AM, fsmithred wrote:
> On 07/18/2016 04:36 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
>> Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 08:54:44AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
>>
Pretty cool trick. I tried it and got mixed results. I'm running without
libsystemd0 here
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Nowadays to find a regular person who doesn't own multiple computers, you
> need to go to Africa or rural India.
>
> I'd say it's safe to assume that a person authorized to login on the
> console
> (either text or graphical) is supposed to
On Tue, 7/19/16, Edward Bartolo wrote:
Subject: Re: [DNG] Inform DNG users their email has been moved.
To: "Simon Walter" , "dng"
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2016, 1:31 AM
>
> You have been banned from my mail.
>
> Thanks for proving who you are and what your intention is.
> That prove
Le 19/07/2016 13:34, Adam Borowski a écrit :
But why would anyone make a graphical console without a computer this
millenium? Even if used just as a thin client, some extra logic to manage
this would be nice. A computer costs a few cents these days, or, if you
want a capable board and connector
Le 19/07/2016 10:17, Simon Walter a écrit :
One can program a login manager that is only suited for single user
machines. One can program a login manager that allows shutdown and
restart without a password. I think that those already exist. I am not
defending the choice of SLiM.
What I am try
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 01:29:23AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Latter page mentions 'Multiseat setups are great for schools, libraries,
> and family computers.' Arguably true, _maybe_. Depends on the economics
> of additional consoles versus extra complete computers, I guess. I
> enjoyed using min
On 07/18/2016 04:36 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 08:54:44AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
>
>>> Pretty cool trick. I tried it and got mixed results. I'm running without
>>> libsystemd0 here, so I can't have gvfs-daemons. That means ther
Rick Moen wrote:
> Remember that bit I posted about how /usr/bin/ssh makes dynamic library
> calls to sonames of two Kerberos libraries, even on the overwhelming
> majority of systems that do not implement Kerberos?
...
> 'Trust' in the sense you use the word just isn't in that.
But it is.
Have
There are lots of unix boxes that serve many users. The mail server that
sends this does, without requiring each email user to have a unix account.
The only devuan server I have in production so far does, but the users are
in a postgres database, not in /etc/password.
There are also lots of un
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> >I have to confess that I personally didn't understand how multiseat
> >differs from multiuser on Linux until quite recently. Pro bono publico:
> >It concerns simultaneous _local_ users.
>
> Does that include serial devices?
Excellent question. I am
On 07/19/2016 05:29 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
Simon Walter writes:
Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all.
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > That doesn't logically follow. My guesstimate is that some GNOME
> > plumbing is checking for some library function before it offers
> > the user 'removable drives [...] on the desktop'. For libsystemd0
> > library functio
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
> Simon Walter writes:
>
>> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
>> mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
>
> Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all. And I agree too:
> Multiseat is
On 07/19/2016 04:17 PM, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Simon Walter writes:
>> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to mind.
>> There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
>
> Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all. And I agree too:
> Multiseat is unimporta
Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:43:59 +
schrieb Steve Litt :
Hi Steve!
> The "wrapper around sysvinit" thing is a feature of OpenRC, not
> Devuan/Debian's implementation thereof. A little more explanation...
>
> [ . . . ]
Thanks for your patience! It's in some way a bit above my knowledge,
but the e
Simon Walter writes:
Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all. And I agree too:
Multiseat is unimportant, barely significant. The price of computers has
droppe
Rick Moen wrote:
>> So it does look as if libsystemd0 does do something.
>
> That doesn't logically follow. My guesstimate is that some GNOME
> plumbing is checking for some library function before it offers
> the user 'removable drives [...] on the desktop'. For libsystemd0
> library functio
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