Hi,
So to replace my car's battery, I have to first have an understanding
like that of a car engineer. What I am being repeatedly battered to
accept, is the irrationality that the whole always entirely affects
the parts! I take this as an attack on my intelligence: this is
insulting my intelligenc
Hi Folks,
I fixed a subtle bug in the lxc-devuan template which causes some
packages to be reinstalled.
In the original download function, the 'packages' variable (used by:
debootstrap --include=$packages ...) leaks to the post_process function
causing packages to be reinstalled.
It's my f
On 2016-06-13 08:23, Jaromil wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
>
> > I've made an account on git.devuan.org (user: smwltr) How do you
want to do
> > this? Shall I fork your repo and apply a patch and then send you a pull
> > request?
>
> we can create a group (named lxc
Sometime ago i asked here about zram - and got good advice. On one
laptop i have it running and all is fine. But on this unfortunate Sony
i have problems:
When i tried to install zram as on the other machine i discovered that
zram module is not enabled at all:
zgrep ZRAM /proc/config.gz
gzip
By chance i discovered a kind of a compatibility problem:
Since i'm still struggling with my setup (kernel modules are missing,
machine tends to get very hot etc. pp.) i wanted to checkup which
graphic driver would be the best and i installed and tried to run
nvidia-detect - which gave me the foll
On 06/17/2016 04:25 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> >Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init
> >system", but if there is no procedure that does those things fo
On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 20:19 +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 03:02:54PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> Well, if your definition of "initialisation" is just "getting
> something that can boot and shut down without requiring journal
> restores or fsck", then I don't see why Edward is ca
Hi,
So, in essence I am being told to get away as otherwise I would be
ruining my reputation or coding broken code by design.
I will recount what I did when GRUB2 started insisting on using
scripts. As I have a multiboot system, I understood immediately that
the 'new' GRUB version could become a
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:25:06PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > Specifying init=/bin/bash via grub on the cmdline is a common rescue
> > technique for systems with a broken init. Guess what init implementation
> > needs to be rescued th
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init
> > system", but if there is no procedure that does those things for you,
> > then you have to manually do tho
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 07:48:11PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>
> I would say that nowadays things like:
>
> - Mounting filesystems
> - Configuring networking
> - Configuring consoles
> - Launching daemons for different services
> - Offering logins
>
> are all part fo what I consider "system initiali
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:19:12PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> Then you can provide any other alternative definition of "init
> system", but if there is no procedure that does those things for you,
> then you have to manually do those tasks, at each reboot. In that case
> the 12-lines init might just s
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 03:02:54PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> KatolaZ wrote:
>
[cut]
> > I am sorry to look harsh here, but what the DNG list might have
> > "learned" from this "experiment" is just to create a process which
> > forks a child and wait forever for its children and grand-children
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 19:36:49 +0100
KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 02:14:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200
> > Irrwahn wrote:
> >
> > > As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does
> > > learning things already proven wrong.
> >
> >
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:40:11 +0300
Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> [snip]
> > Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more
> > complicated than that, whether you like it or not.
> [snip]
>
> Is there a concise summary somewhere of what system initiali
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 09:40:11PM +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> [snip]
> > Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more complicated
> > than that, whether you like it or not.
> [snip]
>
> Is there a concise summary somewhere of what system initi
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:19:40 +0200
Irrwahn wrote:
> Far from it. You are humiliating yourself by showing more than
> just reluctance to accept anything beyond your preconceptions.
Urban, let it go. Edward has a different way of going about stuff than
you. No biggy.
Edward, don't be so sensit
On 06/17/2016 09:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
[snip]
> Unfortunately, system initialisation is really a bit more complicated
> than that, whether you like it or not.
[snip]
Is there a concise summary somewhere of what system initialization
entails? Or is it dependent on accumulated experience and not co
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 02:14:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200
> Irrwahn wrote:
>
> > As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does learning
> > things already proven wrong.
>
> I don't know what got proven wrong, but as a result of this thread, th
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:55:40 +0200
Irrwahn wrote:
> A minimal PID1 (written in whatever language) is not an init
> system.
Everyone should note the preceding sentence. A lot of people use PID1
and "init" interchangeably, and that's wrong and leads to problems. As
a matter of fact, it seems li
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:01:37 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
>>
>> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough,
>> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually
>> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behi
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:31:28 +0200
Irrwahn wrote:
> As for the educational value: I fail to see what good does learning
> things already proven wrong.
I don't know what got proven wrong, but as a result of this thread, the
average DNG inhabitant now knows as much about init as I, the author
of
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:56:16 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
>>
>> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough,
>> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually
>> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behi
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
>
> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough,
> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually
> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behind it, that
> brought us systemd and other crap. If you keep thi
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:02:35 +0200
Didier Kryn wrote:
> However I think init must do more on the long run than reaping
> zombies. It should ensure in some way that at least someone can login
> to the system to do something, for example it should supervise a
> supervisor, or at least superv
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 04:55:40PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
>
> It's this arrogant attitude of "alright, got it, easy enough,
> now I'm gonna improve on it" without bothering to actually
> get to the bottom of even the basic concepts behind it, that
> brought us systemd and other crap. If you keep
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 06:13:59PM +0200, richard lucassen wrote:
[cut]
>
> Anyway, Debian has such an option and I think it would be very valuable
> if such an initrd.gz/vmlinuz would be available from the Devuan
> mirrors. This will make Devuan being available through many PXE boot
> servers a
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:12:07 -0400
aitor_czr wrote:
[snip]
> 6) Clean the content generated by the failed attempt and try again:
>
> apt-get autoremove
> make build_cdrom_isolinux
>
> The initrd.gz and the vmlinuz will be generated in the dest folder :)
Ok, but will that initrd/vmlinuz ask fo
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 17:42:39 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>> what the heck did you think the
>> last line of Felker's original code did?
> Felker's last line:
> return execve("/etc/rc", (char *[]){ "rc", 0 }, (char *[]){ 0 });
>
> In Devuan rc is found in /etc/init.d meaning I had to edit the
Hi,
<<
what the heck did you think the
last line of Felker's original code did?
>>
Felker's last line:
return execve("/etc/rc", (char *[]){ "rc", 0 }, (char *[]){ 0 });
In Devuan rc is found in /etc/init.d meaning I had to edit the code.
Second, to load XFCE4.10 I had to also call "rc 2". Calli
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:21:35 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> Thanks to my installation hassle i had an a bit close look to some
> installed modules. So i saw, that with the basic install + X (i did not
> install any specific desktop, but only with the --no-install-recommends
> option: xorg, jwm, menu, lxd
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:09:00 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> <<
> If 16 lines of C pose a mystery, one should look for another hobby.
> Or get a clue already.
>>>
> I was NOT referring to 16 lines of code, but to the source code for
> established inits like sysvinit, runit and systemd.
Ap
Thanks to my installation hassle i had an a bit close look to some
installed modules. So i saw, that with the basic install + X (i did not
install any specific desktop, but only with the --no-install-recommends
option: xorg, jwm, menu, lxdm) is already pulled in the gnome-polkit.
I do not know, if
Hi,
<<
If 16 lines of C pose a mystery, one should look for another hobby.
Or get a clue already.
>>
I was NOT referring to 16 lines of code, but to the source code for
established inits like sysvinit, runit and systemd. If *at the first
glance*, these projects do not instill some feeling of awe,
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 07:54:33 +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
[...]
> I think it is a mistake to expect a few lines of code written in
> whatever language to outperform other init projects written in several
> thousand lines of code that are well debugged and mature. The place
> for these little script
Le 17/06/2016 14:44, Joel Roth a écrit :
Edward Bartolo wrote:
>PID 1 should fork only once to run the first script that loads the
>operating system. Once execution enters the infinite loop there is no
>way of it jumping to somewhere else.
I'm guessing the loop doesn't actually loop, as the
wai
Edward Bartolo wrote:
> PID 1 should fork only once to run the first script that loads the
> operating system. Once execution enters the infinite loop there is no
> way of it jumping to somewhere else.
I'm guessing the loop doesn't actually loop, as the
wait call just blocks.
> Therefore, only
Le 17/06/2016 12:22, Irrwahn a écrit :
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:04:03 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
>Le 17/06/2016 07:24, Steve Litt a écrit :
>>Edward's pid1 shellscript has exactly one child, /sbin/osloader.sh.
>>That child can fork off a whole lot more processes. So theoretically,
>>with Edward's
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 03:44:17 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Yeah, we need to use an efficient language!
>
> .globl _start
> .data
> nopid1: .ascii "No pid 1, no fun.\n"
[assemly snipped]
> Hmmm... I think I'd go with Perl after all.
Or C, which in the case of init.c is really used
as some
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:04:03 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 17/06/2016 07:24, Steve Litt a écrit :
>> Edward's pid1 shellscript has exactly one child, /sbin/osloader.sh.
>> That child can fork off a whole lot more processes. So theoretically,
>> with Edward's PID1 instead of sysvinit, only one proc
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 14:14:48 -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> I did a test with Memory::Usage, that reports the
> interpreter's virtual memory size as 22MB. Seems cheap
> to me.
Depends: It is not cheap compared to the whopping < 10 KB
executable size and < 200 byte of VSZ that suckless init[1]
cashes
Le 17/06/2016 07:24, Steve Litt a écrit :
Edward's pid1 shellscript has exactly one child, /sbin/osloader.sh.
That child can fork off a whole lot more processes. So theoretically,
with Edward's PID1 instead of sysvinit, only one process would have a
PPID of 1, that being /sbin/osloader.sh.
Y
Le 16/06/2016 23:16, Steve Litt a écrit :
If the machine were anything but a demonstration experimental machine,
so would I contemplate suicide or systemd. Same with Python, Ruby, and
(urk) Javascript. But truth be told, if PID1 were written in Lua, I
would not be dismayed in the slightest.
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