Re: [dmarc-ietf] Understanding Ale's Abuse research

2023-04-07 Thread Douglas Foster
No, Scott. We do not get angry at white-hat researchers. We try to learn from them before the black-hat researchers learn to do the same and begin deployment. Ale's message was a very impressive fake, and it obviously did not take nation-state resources to produce it. This is alarming. Amo

Re: [dmarc-ietf] Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-07 Thread Neil Anuskiewicz
To this point, some inbound configurations have no record or a permerror have a continue disposition. Is that risky? Everything is a trade off so I’m not asking is there any risk at all but more asking about the trade offs.On Apr 5, 2023, at 3:58 AM, Douglas Foster wrote:The sad thing is that the

Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)

2023-04-07 Thread Alessandro Vesely
It is going to be problematic to kick off someone who impersonates different users. What do you do, block IP numbers? We keep on saying that mailing list have worked this way for decades. Sure. And email in general has been working for decades before the need to use authentication arose. So

Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)

2023-04-07 Thread Scott Kitterman
On April 7, 2023 6:43:33 PM UTC, Alessandro Vesely wrote: >It is going to be problematic to kick off someone who impersonates different >users. What do you do, block IP numbers? > >We keep on saying that mailing list have worked this way for decades. Sure. >And email in general has been work

Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)

2023-04-07 Thread Eric D. Williams
I think the reliance upon list operators is properly placed on that role. It's not a DMARC problem, it's a DKIM problem, I think. Eric D. Williams PGP Public Key http://new.infobro.com/KeyServ/EricDWilliams.asc Finger Print: 1055 8AED 9783 2378 73EF 7B19 0544 A590 FF65 B789 _

Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)

2023-04-07 Thread Douglas Foster
Scott's approach solves our longest-running argument, but not in the way that I expected.We can embrace his approach with a single Security Consideration to this effect: "Mailing lists are frequently characterized by operating practices that depend on security through obscurity rather than Sen