Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Derek Martin
On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 03:07:27PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Rich Pieri said on Mon, 20 May 2024 14:13:10 -0400 > > >On Sun, 19 May 2024 17:21:48 -0700 > >Kent Borg wrote: > > > >> I think that is my essence of my complaint. Too complicated for > >> someone who isn't studied in it. > > > >This

[Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread Kent Borg
I've been playing with commercial VMs the last few days. First playing with Digital Ocean, then playing with Linode. I like Linode better. First, their "Debian 12" seems closer to the real Debian 12 than is Digital Ocean's. Also, though Linode's cheapest VM ($5/month) is a little more expensi

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread markw
Sorry for the top-post I have been using ZFS professionally and personally for over 10 years. I have also been an internal maintainer for our linux variant's modifications for our company's product. ZFS is not perfect. There are a lot of things I don't like about it. There are also a lot of things

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Kent Borg
On 5/30/24 09:47, ma...@mohawksoft.com wrote: All that said, OMG ZFS is absolutely the way to go for any new deployment unless a bare bones hardware performance is required. I would amend that: Any new deployment…that is conventional (from ZFS's perspective) and can afford the necessary expert

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread markw
> On 5/30/24 09:47, ma...@mohawksoft.com wrote: >> All that said, OMG ZFS is absolutely the way to go for any new >> deployment >> unless a bare bones hardware performance is required. > > I would amend that: Any new deployment…that is conventional (from ZFS's > perspective) and can afford the ne

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Rich Pieri
On Thu, 30 May 2024 10:15:18 -0700 Kent Borg wrote: > I would amend that: Any new deployment…that is conventional (from > ZFS's perspective) and can afford the necessary expertise. While ZFS's *syntax* is different from say LVM + ext4, in *practice* it's quite simpler: zpool create tank /dev/sd

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Rich Pieri
On Thu, 30 May 2024 15:56:54 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > Rich, after reading this, for the first time I'm thinking of trying > zfs. You did a good job listing its benefits. You're welcome. You might want to peruse Aaron Topponce's ZFS on Linux essays. The original site has gone offline but it's ar

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Shirley Márquez Dúlcey
The only other caveat about ZFS that I will offer is that it apparently performs VERY badly on SMR hard drives. Stick to CMR drives or SSDs for your RAID setup. On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 4:16 PM Rich Pieri wrote: > On Thu, 30 May 2024 15:56:54 -0400 > Steve Litt wrote: > > > Rich, after reading t

Re: [Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread John Hall
I've been a Linode customer and I believe you have to use the kernels that they have modified for Linode. There may be a process to create a system image with a compatible kernel but then you get into issues when it's time to upgrade. Linode has the greater resources anyway so battling against syst

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Kent Borg
On 5/30/24 11:25, ma...@mohawksoft.com wrote: I don't understand why you think ZFS has any more base complexity than something like LVM. I admit it is a matter of taste that I find zfs ornery. It is trivial, but I find it annoying that I can't use mount to mount a zfs volume. I've got to use

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread markw
> On 5/30/24 11:25, ma...@mohawksoft.com wrote: >> I don't understand why you think ZFS has any more base complexity than >> something like LVM. > > I admit it is a matter of taste that I find zfs ornery. It is trivial, > but I find it annoying that I can't use mount to mount a zfs volume. > I've g

[Discuss] USB Cables (was Debian 11 -> 12)

2024-05-30 Thread Rich Pieri
On Thu, 30 May 2024 16:49:08 -0400 ma...@mohawksoft.com wrote: > Try looking at the hub and cables. I've seen these issues, but > unrelated to ZFS. Over on mobileread a while back we had someone complaining that their reader kept disconnecting while copying files and corrupting the device storage

Re: [Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread Dan Ritter
Kent Borg wrote: > much RAM, but I ran into problems with 512 MiB when just setting things up: > running emacs, installing packages… And why does systemd think it needs to > be a whole damn OS in and of itself? It is a pig. And it is complex making, > it a security risk. (Yes, I blame systemd for

Re: [Discuss] Debian 11 -> 12

2024-05-30 Thread Dan Ritter
Rich Pieri wrote: > I almost agree on a technicality: ZFS was not designed for a "general > audience". It was designed to be the last word -- or at least the last > letter, "Z" -- in enterprise scalability and performance. But it just so > happens to be really good at smaller scales, too. Better t

Re: [Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread John Hall
Oh I found what you were talking about. Digital ocean is partnered with sendgrid. ... lol so digital ocean is out unless you use a monitoring method that does not user port 25. Any recommendations for monitoring without port 25 ? NewRelic ? Scripts ? On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 5:30 PM Dan Ritter

Re: [Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread Kent Borg
On 5/30/24 14:28, Dan Ritter wrote: If you're using Debian stable: sudo apt install sysvinit-core reboot. Let me try that. Thanks! Reboot… Oooow, and the ssh keys changed! Does that mean I now have the real version sshd and not the systemd version‽‽ Cool. And I got back seventy megabyte

Re: [Discuss] USB Cables (was Debian 11 -> 12)

2024-05-30 Thread Kent Borg
On 5/30/24 14:25, Rich Pieri wrote: They were adamant that there was something wrong with their device, but we finally convinced them to replace the cable. Yes, I have on occasion connected drives using a converter to connect old USB to USB-C, that doesn't make a tight connection, and with a

Re: [Discuss] Debian 12 in the Cloud

2024-05-30 Thread Dan Ritter
Kent Borg wrote: > > Everything should come up again just fine on a non-desktop > > system. Things can be arranged on a desktop system but are > > somewhat more involved. > > I wonder how much this would break my MATE desktop… It's reversible if you can't make it work, but I suspect that adding