man-db vs. man

2010-02-12 Thread Till Maas
age, which seems to only work with man-db. Could this be a Feature for F14 to use man-db instead of man or are there major reasons not to do this? Btw. I cc'ed man-ow...@fpo. Regards Till [0] http://man-db.nongnu.org/ pgph4MSFOwdQx.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mai

Re: Fedora rawhide FTBFS status 2010-02-10 x86_64

2010-02-13 Thread Till Maas
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 09:50:29AM -0600, Matt Domsch wrote: > gpscorrelate-1.6.0-4.fc13 (build/make) till fixed in release 6 by using g++ for linking. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Orphaning Some Packages

2010-02-14 Thread Till Maas
r, or clearly decide to > remove > the package from Fedora. I agree totally. Regards Till pgpP59V58eWz0.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Git 1.7 and git push?

2010-02-15 Thread Till Maas
pply if you want to remove the master branch remotely: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/RelNotes-1.7.0.txt Regards Till pgpC1vx8iOsD1.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Summary/Minutes for 2010-02-16 FESCo meeting

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
nym, it won't be found by the wiki search engine when searching for "fedora engineering services": https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=fedora+engineering+services&go=Go Regards Till pgplSHic4B9n4.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
affected dependent packages, if they are required to fix a bug. Afaik currently kde does not use a custom tag, and therefore if one wants to update a kde/qt dependent package, it would be build with a incompatible kde/qt version and therefore cannot be pushed to stable. Regards Till pgp83Pfc7

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
. E.g. major updates should now break rawhide first and if the fallout is handled, then it could be done for F-13. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:28:37PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 17.02.2010, 15:07 +0100 schrieb Till Maas: > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 02:23:22PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > Usually when some of mine packages n

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
ything about branching. It would help a lot to avoid duplicating content in the wiki, because it only leads to out-of-sync contents and makes it harder to update it. Regards Till [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Important_Release_Milestones [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedu

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
I have to ask, because it does not contain any hint, that it is. If it is, it seems not to know F13, because F13 is not on the list. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 07:36:00AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 16:33 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > Is the branch freeze a week late or is it now the same as the alpha > > freeze? In the "Important Release Milestones" wiki page[0], the branch > &g

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:52:57AM -0600, Matt Domsch wrote: > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 04:40:33PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 06:11:58AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > > > The branched repo config is the fedora.repo file. Mirrormanager will b

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
unication method for this stuff > > because it's real time, please use it!) > > I'm assuming that Till is talking about my comment > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=549717#c2 on merkaartor > (which he co-maintains). > > So nothing to see here

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-17 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:40:15PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:28:37PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote: > > > >> Take KDE for example: Although the KDE SIG is doing a great job in > >> avoiding breakdowns, I dou

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-18 Thread Till Maas
e maintained by the same group, there is no harm in using a buildroot override. But as soon as several different maintainers and there are a lot of packages to be updated and the buildroot override is there for a long time, then using custom tags seem to be appropriate for me. Regards Till pgpb

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-18 Thread Till Maas
r to help with buildroot overrides assuming that it does not take that much time. I am located in CET/UTC+1, too. Is there maybe a schedule about how well the timeslots are covered? Regards Till pgpIGbFd6vYCw.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists

Re: Fedora 13 has been branched!!

2010-02-19 Thread Till Maas
component=koji&owner=rel-eng%40lists.fedoraproject.org&order=priority I added this to the SOP as well. Regards Till pgpSdLGrkJOEB.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Read this if your package BuildRequires qt(4)-devel!!!

2010-02-23 Thread Till Maas
to push the big Qt 4.6.2 / KDE 4.4.0 / SIP 4.10 update set out), > so this particular version bump should no longer be a source of trouble. Now that I know the command to do this, here it is: $ koji latest-pkg dist-f12-build qt | grep override If this returns something, the package must only be

Re: hdparm -B for netbooks

2010-02-24 Thread Till Maas
but after suspend/hibernate the values are normally restored by pm-utils (eventually this might happen in the kernel). In the past some devices needed a manual override in /etc/pm-utils-hd-apm-restore.conf But this might not be needed anymore. Regards Till pgpJF0VZxLkKb.pgp Description:

Re: hdparm -B for netbooks

2010-02-24 Thread Till Maas
ering > http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pm-utils to hack the pm-utils. The hook in sleep.d is not required in Fedora, because it should be already handled. I just wrote a mail to pm-utils devel mailinglist to decide whether the Fedora hook should be included in the upstream release. Regards Till pg

Re: Fedora 13 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting RESCHEDULED: 2010-02-25 @ 19:00 UTC (14:00 EST)

2010-02-24 Thread Till Maas
ing Readiness Meetings" is very easy to confuse with the other meeting, especially because both happen within about 24 hours or not. Regards Till pgp9LfyBMdoVU.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: hdparm -B for netbooks

2010-02-25 Thread Till Maas
gh to unload. But since there is afaik no proper documentation about this issue, everything is just guessing. Regards Till pgpRCZKiBkkmT.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: pypolicyd-spf

2010-02-25 Thread Till Maas
he docs: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join Regards Till pgp9kLzYxTKq8.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: creating file in koji allowed?

2010-02-25 Thread Till Maas
directories Regards Till pgpW7wEiNbUiv.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: fedora-release-rawhide, et. al.

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
earch > > ...is never going to == > > https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=rawhide&arch=$basearch It seems that it would be enough to rename the repo from rawhide to fedora-rawhide in MirrorManager, so that one can use --releasever=rawhide Regards Till pgpvQSpnGKzF

Re: fedora-release-rawhide, et. al.

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
ver=rawhide worked, then this would be better than having to install the rawhide-release package. Regards Till pgpTibxsXWxpS.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
ry annoying bugs any further. Regards Till pgpfupgEkrBg7.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
of that someone else cares about the bug. But it still does not mean that they would use updates-testing or bodhi. Regards Till pgpoakL6A4Cxc.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 08:36:41AM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 02:23:33PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > >On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 01:16:43PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > > >> I would like to collect feedback on this issue. If you want to disable > &

Re: Meeting Summary/Minutes for (2010-01-19) FESCo meeting

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 02:51:46PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:34:50 +0100 > Till Maas wrote: > > Maybe the meetbot could be patched to only accept a topic change > > after a #agreed command was used (or some other command except the > > #action

Re: fedora-release-rawhide, et. al.

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
so repoquery returns F12 results but accepts --releasever: $ repoquery --releasever=rawhide --repoid=fedora kernel kernel-0:2.6.31.5-127.fc12.x86_64 Regards Till pgppzKqZesfCB.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
it is usually best to follow upstream closely to avoid that Fedora users even hit bugs that are already fixed. Regards Till pgpZ3yOI6cb0F.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
matically test packages, so mabye they could build that first and then write tests for packages. Regards Till pgpeveYpvpFoY.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: VCS key in spec files and some scripts

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
the current SPEC would still build the current upstream SCM version. Regards Till pgp71FapuHipC.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: fedora-release-rawhide, et. al.

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 01:12:53PM -0500, James Antill wrote: > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 17:14 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 04:29:31PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > > New: > > > yum --releasever= upgrade > > > > >

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:01:56AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 18:56 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > > Something I am dreaming about is to have some infrastructure to > > automatically test packages, so mabye they could build that first and > > th

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
It allows new users of the package not to find/debug the bugs again that are already fixed upstream 4) It is not made easy to test packages, e.g. normal uses normally do not have a test environment set up and most likely do not want to mess their own system. Maybe providing one-click access (

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
Others don not have gigabit internet access all around the clock. I am trying > to update > my Netbook over a mobile connection as I write this. But why do you want to update your Netbook anyhow? And with yum-presto the demand for high speed internet access is not that big. Regards Till pgpUxCJreJ5TU.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 07:18:58PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 08:15:43PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > 1) to fix a bug or add a feature the maintainer experienced/uses > > If nobody is complaining about the bug, then fixing the bug can wait >

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 07:56:02PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 08:41:07PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 07:18:58PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 08:15:43PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > >

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:36:41AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 20:26 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > First”) include > > "first. > > I take this to mean the first to include something in a release, as we > develop it, not the first one to throw

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
tain amount of karma. I just checked that stable packages may still receive karma, so then everyone can pre-select packages based on the karma. And people for whom the current system works good enough, can disable it. And security updates could still be installed using the yum-security p

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
sure, that there is more manpower than in Fedora alone. Regards Till pgpVgJ7ctHpno.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 03:46:39PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) said: > > I just have another idea: Add the karma value to the repository > > metadata and write a yum plugin to only install packages with a certain > > amount of karma. I jus

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
hanges that can easily be tested. Regards Till pgpFwha0Fv53L.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
, but both went away in a distribution upgrade. But I was more often hit by not up to date packages in Fedora. Regards Till pgpZ4wblnxXgo.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-26 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:22:25PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 04:14:37PM -0500, James Antill wrote: > > > ...and as in all threads about this that I can remember, the obvious fix > > to the above is having two repos. and let everyone who wants a giant >

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 03:11:50AM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > I do not remember that I ever wanted to downgrade something except that I > > am still missing kpdf/kprinter, but both went away in a distribution > > upgrade. > > kprinter is stil

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
me for Fedora. E.g. there are updates that certainly should happen only in Rawhide, e.g. if they require manual intervention. Afaik this is required regularly for postgres updates, because the format of the database files changes. Regards Till pgpgVy4ojHtlD.pgp Description: PGP signature -- de

Re: FESCo wants a more sane updates policy (feedback requested)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
Rawhide that are not meant to be consumed directly or without manual intervention. Regards Till pgpnh11xlZwK9.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 05:28:26PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 19:53 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:01:56AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > > > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 18:56 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > > > > >

Re: fedora-release-rawhide, et. al.

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 03:00:39PM +0200, Ville Skyttä wrote: > On Friday 26 February 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 01:12:53PM -0500, James Antill wrote: > > > On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 17:14 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > > > Also repoquer

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
stion: Rawhide is not partly rolling as Fedora is. And a typical reason not to upgrade from F(current-1) to F(current) is because the major updates may make systems unusable, e.g. X not working anymore. But this does not mean that the same person does not want bugfixes for e.g. yum-builddep installing build dependencies again. Regards Till pgpL2CZg2MOO7.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 10:45:49AM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > Did you read what he wrote? I feel tempted to just copy the paragraph > > Kevin wrote again, because it already answers your question: Rawhide is > > not partly rolling

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 08:43:58PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > I like it more to have bugs fixed > in F(current) at the cost of not fixing that much bugs in F(current-1) > to keep it stable. This should read as "to have more bugs fixed in F(current)" (even at the cost

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
also only happen from release to release. There was a good list about criteria for good updates somewhere in the thread, I can try to find it again if you want. Regards Till pgpfCabgWkH5Y.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
whide as it is, because there needs to be a usable, newer release available within less than six months. Regards Till pgpGDZ4p4Ck7o.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
more strict, than it would be nice to know that it breaks the current upstream SCM version of a package I maintain directly, so it can be fixed sooner. Regards Till pgpKZnNGZshfE.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-02-27 Thread Till Maas
My proposal: If it passes all AutoQA tests and matches the criteria by Kevin Koffler[0], then the update is ok, except that critical path packages should be inspected more carefully. Regards Till [0] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2010-February/131570.html pgpruvvB3gBQu.pgp Descript

Re: Directory ownership bugs

2010-03-01 Thread Till Maas
t something that should checked in a stable release, but Rawhide or maybe branched-Rawhide, because this simple change does imho not justify a package update. Regards Till pgpS9oMTmDHpU.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-03-01 Thread Till Maas
ral case, I do not think that for every package manual testing will always be required, except while creating new automatic tests. E.g. if you have a library package with good unit test and behaviour test coverage and tests for RPM metadata, what do you want to test manually? Regards Till pgpbl

Re: OT: fas-username vs. local username for fedora-cvs

2010-03-01 Thread Till Maas
to avoid problems with other projects using CVS. Regards Till pgppMcmO4wG0k.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: OT: fas-username vs. local username for fedora-cvs

2010-03-01 Thread Till Maas
On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 09:09:08PM +0100, Alexander Boström wrote: > mån 2010-03-01 klockan 20:13 +0100 skrev Till Maas: > > > But I wonder, how do you access CVS without this? > > You shouldn't need it. What happens if you don't have it? It still seems to work.

Re: Refining the update queues/process [Was: Worthless updates]

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
oduced with updates. If updates are slowed down, this will get even worse. Especially because the proposal is to use time instead of test coverage as the criterion to push an update to stable. Regards Till pgpuKfMIZ9keg.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
t; updates once every 2 weeks. Everything else once a month. How about we keep updates and updates-testing more like they are and add another repo like updates-stable that follows your policy and is the only updates repo enabled by default. Regards Till pgpbBYdWQf47R.pgp Description: PGP signatu

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 01:46:20PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Mon, 1 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > What kind of tests need to be done always manually? The only ones I can > > think are tests for the appearance of applications or tests that require > > specific hardwar

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
you are So there is an easy way to get around 25% (two week stay in testing) to 50% (one week stay in testing) more time to test packages without negative impact: make them faster available to the users. Regards Till pgp7EJcFZLn9K.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists

Re: Refining the update queues/process [Was: Worthless updates]

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:42:57AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > Are there even any metrics about how many bad updates happened? For me > > bug that can be fixed issuing an update are a lot more than regressions > > with updates or new

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
become better. > If we had less updates, that changed less things and required more > testing before pushing them to users ... this would be entirely > possible. Less updates mean more changes per update or you have more buggy packages, because updates usually fix bugs. Regard

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 10:50:22AM -0600, Garrett Holmstrom wrote: > On 3/3/2010 2:51, Till Maas wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 09:07:29PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > How about we keep updates and updates-testing more like they are and add > > another repo like update

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 05:37:14PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > How about we keep updates and updates-testing more like they are and add > > another repo like updates-stable that follows your policy and is the > > only updates repo enabled by default. &g

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
intaining is a good option with different co-maintainers caring > more about one or the other stream. This came to my mind, too. Regards Till pgp2wP6P7g1jT.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: FESCo wants to ban direct stable pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 11:48:18AM -0500, James Antill wrote: > On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 17:09 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 11:02:51AM -0500, James Antill wrote: > > > If we had less updates, that changed less things and required more > > > testing b

Re: Refining the update queues/process [Was: Worthless updates]

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 11:07:27AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:42:57AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > > >>> Are there even an

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:04:21PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > As far as I understood, there is no need to backport security fixes. One > > could just copy the package with the security fix with all needed > > dependencies to the stable repo imho. &g

Re: Worthless updates

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:08:22PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > Bug avoiding regressions at all costs is what some are willing to take. > > With the repo split there can be at least better co-operation as e.g. > > splitting the distribution. At least for

Re: bz532373, was Re: tor dependency insanity.

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
with the disabled logging anyways? Afaics, it only requires a simple change in a conf file, which is something a user can be expected to do. And security by default is something I can only support. Regards Till pgphQ4gTY7oOc.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedorapr

Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 02:06:33PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 17:04 +0100, Till Maas wrote: > > > I mind have misunderstood it, but afaics it only says that it will be > > tested, because it spent time in updates-testing, but this is not even > >

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-03 Thread Till Maas
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 12:55:46AM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > So here is a first ugly script to easily give feedback for all installed > testing updates that were created after a certain date (I did not find > an easy way to get all testing updates, one did not yet comment on

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
tty straight forward, I will do this later today, too. Regards Till pgpdc26Tt0Hjk.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
ch is included: http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=till/public_git/fedora-easy-karma.git;a=summary Regards Till pgp91dNDmVRfL.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 10:26:17AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 01:23:30AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > >> Great script here's a small set of changes to have easy-karma use yum

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 09:36:53PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > small nit: if a single update has, say, three packages in it, the script > presents it for your feedback three times. This is fixed in the current git release. Regards Till pgp1JcxH9MT6j.pgp Description: PGP sig

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
am more in favor of packaging by its own, to make it easy to update it, but it could be added to the fedora-packager comps group, iirc there is one. Regards Till pgpdQ5ZecnP5E.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 11:34:20AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > Where is the module 'fedora_cert' packaged? I can't seem to find it. It is in fedora-packager-0.4.0-1.fc12 from updates-testing. Regards Till pgp7Sganx4A6n.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel

Re: To semi-rolling or not to semi-rolling, that is the question...

2010-03-04 Thread Till Maas
, but e.g. only for around nine months. A Milestone could be the Alpha release of the Rawhide branch of N+2, e.g. F13 updates will be supported until F15 Alpha is created, so everyone has a about a three month update window to get from FN-updates to F(N+1)-updates or F(N+1)-updates-stable. Regards

Re: To semi-rolling or not to semi-rolling, that is the question...

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
into a guideline for maintainers to help them decide. Regards Till pgpQqdD79EfGc.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: To semi-rolling or not to semi-rolling, that is the question...

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 06:46:01AM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > F13 updates will be supported until F15 Alpha is created, so > > everyone has a about a three month update window to get from FN-updates to > > F(N+1)-updates or F(N+1)-updates-stable. >

Re: VCS key in spec files and some scripts

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 06:39:11PM +, Colin Walters wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Till Maas wrote: > > > > Thanks, this looks useful. I will try to use them, too. From their > > description they should be helpful to just check whether the current > >

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
Here is now a review request for fedora-easy-karma: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=570771 pgp3bH9mzb8w2.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Upcoming Bugzilla Changes

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
"F13" to RedHat Bugzilla or the branching of F13, depending on what happened later, are touched by the "Rawhide bug rebase". Regards Till pgp2O6CHdoh1x.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Speedup the availability of updates (was: Re: Push scripts, mash) pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback))

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
repos $repo-recent, that only includes metadata for the new rpms, but references to the same rpms on the filesystem that $repo uses. Regards Till pgpoG8I7DOakT.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Speedup the availability of updates (was: Re: Push scripts, mash) pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback))

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 08:08:09AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I have some ideas to speedup the availability of updates. Are there any > > reasons except that the tools to do this do not exist yet, to

Re: Upcoming Bugzilla Changes

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 03:11:23PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Till Maas wrote: > > Especially it needs to be made sure that only bugs created prior to > > adding "F13" to RedHat Bugzilla or the branching of F13, depending on > > what happened later, are tou

Re: VCS key in spec files and some scripts

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 09:53:59AM -0500, Colin Walters wrote: > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Till Maas wrote: > > Also a link to an example spec would be helpful. > > For just the #VCS key? Let me instead write up a formal proposal: It helps to have something that is supp

Re: Upcoming Bugzilla Changes

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 03:42:57PM +0100, Till Maas wrote: > On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 03:11:23PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Till Maas wrote: > > > > Especially it needs to be made sure that only bugs created prior to > > > adding "F13" to RedHat Bugzil

Re: Speedup the availability of updates (was: Re: Push scripts, mash) pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback))

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 12:23:17PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) said: > > I have some ideas to speedup the availability of updates. Are there any > > reasons except that the tools to do this do not exist yet, to switch to > > this? I cr

Re: Provide more testing feedback (was: Re: Refining the update queues/process)

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
y return for you? python -c "import fedora_cert; print fedora_cert.read_user_cert()" python -c "import os; print os.getlogin()" But it seems that os.getlogin() is too smart for this purposes, e.g. for me it always uses the username that started X, even if I "su -" or

Re: Speedup the availability of updates (was: Re: Push scripts, mash) pushes in Bodhi (urgent call for feedback))

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 12:49:09PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) said: > > > It seems to be missing something - it says 'all rpms that are not included > > > in the prior metadata will be deleted', but there's nothing in t

Re: Refining the update queues/process [Was: Worthless updates]

2010-03-05 Thread Till Maas
in F12 updates testing when I last ran fedora-easy-karma and only 108 (28%) received any comment with karma != 0. For F11 its 34/272 (12.5%). I am curious to to how these numbers have changed in a week. I hope then everyone from the QA SIG is using the script to report feedback, s

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