n and hence breaks every other dbus-using PAM module that
> might be loaded, or it might not call it in which case it will leak
> memory. Same dilemma.
>
> It's a common problem. In fact, libpulse had a similar issue until i
> added -z nodelete to its linker line.
The dilemma i
user enumeration here ?
> has always been the answer but you broke that from happening.
Stop using nss_ldap and use sssd instead and the problem will magically
go away by itself.
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sake seem a big temptation within the systemd
development team and this is somethign that legitimately causes worry
IMO.
That said, on the VM I tried F14 upgrading straight from F12 all seem
fine so far, although the output of systemctl is something I still need
to get used to (I wonder what "
uses that makes them less susceptible from security
issues.
Why should we make crippleware ?
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just add new stuff (and often new bugs)) is a bit
unsettling for people that actually use their computer to do "work", as
opposed to just try out new stuff every 2 days.
Why people that love raw bleeding cutting edge can't simply use
rawhide ? (Or pick the packages they li
? If not, I think I will retire it.
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iently long since
> FUDCon Toronto that I can't recall what the known issues were
> exactly, but anaconda team may.
pre-upgrade doesn't work if boot is on raid.
I don't remember other issues when you install from disk.
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AY!
If you as a maintainer close it as fixed instead of 'insufficient data'
then you are at fault. I never close as fixed unless I have
confirmation (or I know because i tested/fixed myself).
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t; No. There is no need for a directory that replaces /etc/sysconfig. It's
> borked. If a daemon has not configuration file but should have one, then
> fix the daemon, don't fake a configuration file.
Some daemons cannot be "fixed", get over with this
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 21:16 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
AN
> attached storage (and that could be large, multi-user systems).
If they don't already have a directory or at the very least a way to
rsync /etc/passwd around they do not have a production grade
installation.
If they already have shared user information this change shouldn't make
On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 13:52 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:
> On 07/20/2011 01:19 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 12:29 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:
> >> On 07/20/2011 12:28 PM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Ric Wheeler wrote:
&
machines and newer machines and
> will be wedged with some awful solutions for a while.
>
> If we can't go to 999 how about we go way up to the 2million+ range?
That would be *much* worse.
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On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 17:08 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 17:02 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 13:59 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 12:57 -0400, James Antill wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 22:
his work on our freetime and apparently it's
> not considered rude on maintainers behalf to not respond to bug
> reports to the people reporting them ) only that they respond if they
> are looking at this or not or will be after a week for that matter.
> ( which is like minute of tw
stable faster. In
> particular, why not allow direct stable pushes (without any karma)
> for
> branched-but-unreleased versions?
+1
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en it is certainly broken.
ABI *additions* w/o change of the SONAME happens every day in every
library.
If you do not want to set a require on the fedora package version, then
you could check what is the highest symbol version for all symbols in
the lib and require that. Unfortunately not all librar
simple to do.
> Hilariously gcc _does_ let you specify symbol version in a __attribute__
> tag, but only on HP/UX on ia64. Thanks for that.
[fail]
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> that into Avahi you hence get a substantial security benefit, not a loss
> of security.
For those that do not care about the security implication of printing on
a "random" printer, this is certainly a better proposition. Nobody is
complaining that cups browsing is being replaced by som
at would
really be welcome for systemd. Esp when a service has multiple files
that need to be changed/unliked/linked at the same time. A tool like
that would also show/point out if an action breaks dependencies with a
verbose mode view or something.
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On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 17:44 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 23.08.11 11:10, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > I am pretty sure that 95% of everybody who has ssd or CUPS installed
> > > will not use it more often than than 1/h, which is really seld
On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 18:14 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 23.08.11 11:56, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> >
> > On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 17:44 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Tue, 23.08.11 11:10, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
> &
SD should use socket activation,
as the clients are supposed to immediately fail and return nothing
rather then letting application wait for minutes like it happens with
nss_ldap).
Of course this can be handled by changing libraries and daemons so that
they timeout or handle the circular dependency d
On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 17:28 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Simo Sorce writes:
> > ... If instead the socket is listening but not really accepting and
> > processing requests, then yes, you can have a deadlock.
>
> > So socket activation is not transparent by any means and need
On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 14:37 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 17:28 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > Simo Sorce writes:
> > > ... If instead the socket is listening but not really accepting and
> > > processing requests, then yes, you can have a dea
think we need to code up is some additional knowledge into systemd
> to say which Types can manage which services. For example we want to
> say NetworkManager_t can start/stop ntpd but not start/stop the apache
> server. Similarly we want to have a confined admin type webadm_t th
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 15:10 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 09:06:22AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 14:37 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > Why not?
> > >
> > > If the service is enabled but the daemon not curren
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 11:08 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Simo Sorce writes:
> > On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 15:10 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 09:06:22AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> >>> It generally is a bad idea to automatically restart a da
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 19:44 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 24.08.11 10:56, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > > a random connection. There many reasons why you may have stopped the db
> > > > (or it may have stopped itself) and requires inspecti
On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 19:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 24.08.11 11:18, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > FWIW, I do think that there may be use-cases for socket activation of a
> > > database. I'd like to support the option ... the prob
ms (via
> ssh), but this needs a patch to dbus to actually work which I still
> haven't found time to ultimately clean up for proper inclusion.
Monitoring system generally do not have (nor should have) ssh access to
other servers.
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ng hardware support for boot times.
>
> We should probe for everything by default. Users who don't have a floppy
> drive and want to save some boot time can blacklist the driver manually.
It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of floppies can
install, so that 99.9% of th
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 21:13 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Simo Sorce wrote:
> > It seem much more intelligent to add a package owners of floppies can
> > install, so that 99.9% of the others do not have to wait forever for no
> > reason.
>
> This goes against the princi
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 14:55 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> > Making boot hang for long periods can easily be seen as 'Not working
> > properly' and therefore make default floppy support 'not possible'.
> > At least t
On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 15:12 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Simo Sorce said:
> > I said:
> > A) 99.9% of users do not needed the floppy anymore
> > B) I said hang for "long periods" and not "forever", where here "long"
> > is
;GPLv3+ and LGPLv3+ and (GPLv2 or GPLv3)" as its license?
if you combine them in a single package then I guess you'll have to drop
the '+' from the license, as the non '+' components prevents it.
IANAL of course.
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t format-patch to get all the patches for the commits between the
baseline and the top of the tree ?
That would give you a set of discrete patches that mirror the commits
you have in the git tree.
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ing power in the system monitor, but
> there might be something I do not know that is slowing this machine
> down.
>
> Any info is appreciated!
I don't see that on a thinkpad. Everything is as slow as it was in
F15 :-P
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.
Also with the debug kernels my machine used to go in thermal shutdown
2/3 times a day while compiling or yum installing.
It hasn't happened so far.
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with it.
> It's not rocket science.
... says the rocket engineer ...
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isplays are closest to.
> But that's still going to require some kind of sensible handling of the
> case where one monitor is roughly 100dpi and the other is roughly
> 200dpi, unless we simply say 'you can't do that, all your displays have
> to be in the same DPI Category&
On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 12:49 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 15:44 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 12:31 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 18:49 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > >
> > > > So,
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 13:06 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Mer 5 octobre 2011 21:44, Simo Sorce a écrit :
>
> > Are you saying fonts should change on the fly when I move an app between
> > 2 monitors that have different DPIs ?
>
> Unfortunately, when you get into s
rt of our
> > rendering stack at the moment.
>
> Which is exactly why forcing 96dpi on displays which have very different pixel
> densities *today* is not a good idea at all.
Non sequitur.
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or that use case.
Simo.
I am not asking for a slider because I guess the options
police would shot it down :-P
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On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 16:44 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 11:35:08AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > I am sure display manager can easily grow a button to say something
> > along the lines of: change font resolution to better fit multiple
> >
27;ll not be happy. You cannot please
everyone with a default, but you can with an easy to discover option.
So whatever is the situation the slider should be right there in the
tool you use to manage the additional monitors or people will be forced
to search and find the menu where he can change &
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 17:12 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 12:00:36PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > So in that case you really should just give an option to the user to
> > easily change DPI (no need to call the option 'DPIs', it can be a s
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 11:41 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 12:00:36 -0400,
> Simo Sorce wrote:
> >
> > My main use case here is video projectors, and in that case there is no
> > way on earth you'll ever know the DPI as it depends on the di
of different keys for absolutely no reason.
I have no problem with changing the password, but leave my ssh keys
alone, unless there is a real reason to ask people to change them.
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On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 10:53 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 13:45 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > I have no problem with changing the password, but leave my ssh keys
> > alone, unless there is a real reason to ask people to change them.
>
> Read
On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 13:04 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 11:41 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:30:19 -0400
> > > Jeff Layton wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have
27;t compromise my actual keys even if it happened now or a
year ago.
Plus there are limitations on how many keys (and passpharases I can
remember, especially for stuff I use less often).
Plus there are limitation about how many keys ssh/ssh-agent can use
before failing to log you in no matter what.
Compound all this.
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passx.
By rule ssh and gpg keys passphrases exist only in my memory.
No chance of writing them down.
> > Plus there are limitation about how many keys ssh/ssh-agent can use
> > before failing to log you in no matter what.
>
> If your client config knows what key to use for what host, a
If you have poor security policies for your security stuff you will
always endanger the systems you use, no matter how many times said
system forces you to change credentials. you will never force changing
credentials often enough to make a difference.
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> > takeover is more likely to get noticed than a stolen password, but it
> > still sets the level of expected security.
>
> Yeah, ideally we would do more here with gpg.
Sure so next time you also force me to change my gpg key and throw away
years of web of trust ? No thank
FAS password, log in, and change the ssh key. But the point
> stands in theory: you can have stricter policies for some ssh keys than
> others, and hence some can be compromised without all being
> compromised.)
Sorry Adam but this is BS, if your laptop is stolen you MUST replace all
your ke
ove their practices, isn't it
> worth the small trouble to those that already understand?
No.
Seriously, no.
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figured a network).
If this is done does it mean a potentially high number of services is
started only after a user logged in and attached to a wireless spot ?
Or will NetworkManager-wait-online.servce wait only for networks marked
as to be enable on boot ?
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y few seconds,
sometimes I still suffer from thermal shutdwon due to the fact the
kernel is too dumb to understand it has to trhottle when temp is too
high.
This didn't happen on F15 (samba hardware) so I guess we will have happy
F16 users very soon :-/
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On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 07:57 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 12:49 +0200, Vratislav Podzimek wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-10-17 at 22:40 +0300, alekc...@googlemail.com wrote:
> > > Frequency scaling have negative effects for me
> > > so I need to have it
-headers \
> glibc-utils nscd
What did you downgrade to ?
AFAIK Several people had to downgrade from -11 because of nsswitch
issues ... seem glibc is not in good shape :-(
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nd
even change how it behaves or how it is configured just because Fedora
decided to use systemd.
Where it is possible to easily switch to systmed, I am all for
providing specific configuration and adaptation, but systemd needs to
cater for the needs of software that is developed primarily on sysvinit
based systems.
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t;inheritance" of configuration from /lib to /etc so
> that the user can only make the minimal changes necessary?
> Mirek
I was going to make exactly the same objection.
Now rpm scripts will have to check and possibly have to muck with the
copies in /etc or risk that the service in quest
uch you
can do on the kernel driver front.
You just need to provide for the right hooks so that the thing can be
called as close as possible from the actual halt, when the root
filesystem has been remounted r/o. And of course w/o killing the driver
before that happens.
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t; can do about it - so worrying about the ones we _can_ fix at release
> time becomes less important, when viewed from that perspective. It's a
> good point.
Is it unthinkable to respin the images with those fixes ?
Usually the patches are quite simple to backport, and we are talking
about a limited set of bugs (remote root exploit on install) after all.
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On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 23:04 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Mon, 16.05.11 14:30, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 18:59 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Mon, 16.05.11 14:32, Michal Hlavinka (mhlav...@redhat.com) w
hat you should do is to configure the BIOS to always boot on power-up.
This way the UPS will remove power, figure out power is returned,
reapply power and the BIOS will reboot the machine.
That's how this problem should normally be handled, then there is the
reality of broken BIOSes, broken
On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 21:15 -0500, Robert Nichols wrote:
> On 05/18/2011 06:42 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 16:48 -0500, Robert Nichols wrote:
> >> On 05/18/2011 04:04 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >>> Host requests power down from UPS in
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 02:06 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 07:42:17PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > > I am pretty sure we don't want to run Java programs at late boot, as
> > > root. This would be really bad.
> >
> > You know,
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 14:16 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 08:05:46AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > Some other, more data-centered UPSs that handle multiple machines use
> > completely proprietary protocols over ethernet for example.
>
> I thoug
n a box
> installed with RHEL5 and a box that gets newly installed with F16).
You need to force UIDs in that case anyway, and if you are not using
something like NIS or LDAP then you have to mange that manually anyways,
so I wouldn't make that a stopper for this very welcome change.
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On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 10:45 -0700, John Reiser wrote:
> On 05/24/2011 09:20 AM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 08:25 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>
> >> * This could potentially break sites that are currently using the
> >> 500-1000 UID range and rely
tion again after 10 - 20 or 30 years time..
You are asking the impossible, its unreasonable to set the bar to make
any change in this area to some sort of consensus that was not reached
in the past 30 years. It is effectively stalling the process and
preventing change. Which is unreasonable.
> have been a problem now.)
>
> Personally I think UIDs and their relation to user accounts should be
> treated as host-local. I also want a pony.
It would be nice, but then there is NFS ...
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On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 19:04 -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2011 03:14:43 PM Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 20:04 +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> > > On 05/25/2011 06:14 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > > > Coordinati
On Thu, 2011-05-26 at 00:30 -0700, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 20:04 +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> >> reserved/system IDs are supposed to be once that has been done we can
> >&
> feature adapted from Ubuntu
>
> Hmpf. Does it really make sense updating a packagein a released distro
> with features like this? New distros should have new features not old
> ones, and with your change you broke F15... .
TBH, if the F15 upgrade replied on a specific version
On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 08:25 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 00:30:53 -0700,
> Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
> > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 20:04 +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> >
me login
> if I am logged into a vt.
Yeah I noticed as well that it tells you you are already logged in if
you login in a vt. That seem a much more serious bug.
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On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 10:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 09:53 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > Yeah I noticed as well that it tells you you are already logged in if
> > you login in a vt. That seem a much more serious bug.
>
> gdm tells you you&#
On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 15:38 -0300, Evandro Fernandes Giovanini wrote:
> Em Sex, 2011-05-27 às 14:20 -0400, Simo Sorce escreveu:
> > On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 10:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 09:53 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > >
> > &
2. You can make life easier or harder for people that *need* to run a
proprietary app because there is no alternative, do you have a good
reason to make the life of these people harder ?
(anyway I use bash completeion, do not care about bz 702329, and prefer
to have bash-completeion available
d to get rid of the {,/usr}/lib64 nonsense, *that*'s
> something we can all get behind ...
How would you handle multilib and how would you transition stuff ?
Simo.
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annot easily convert a system from 32 -> 64 bit as you would
have to move everything around.
Simo.
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at random times is just asking for trouble.
What's the problem of having a specific hostname set up at boot time ?
Simo.
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On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 19:02 +0200, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 12:37 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 18:01 +0200, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> > > > We invoke sethostname() from inside systemd since that is one of the
> > > > most
On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 22:46 +0200, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 13:30 -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > > > What's the problem of having a specific hostname set up at boot time?
> > >
> > > The problem with having specific hostname I had is whe
s, that may have keytabs and can never change name but
use things like dynDNS instead to tell other machines where they are.
Simo.
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On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 14:08 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 14.06.11 07:25, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > > What's the problem of having a specific hostname set up at boot
> > > time ?
> > >
> > > The user might want t
hough we are
in the process of fixing it) changing the hostname arbitrarily is still
problematic.
Simo.
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s trusted, so that I could, for example, run a kernel I built
> myself or one from another RPM?
I would say that if this feature prevents users from creating their own
trusted kernels we shouldn't probably care supporting it.
Simo.
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On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 22:21 +0200, nodata wrote:
> 2. This seems like Trusted Computing, which got shot down in flames.
Who shot it and why ?
> Does TrustedBoot go against the core values of Fedora?
Only if it is not under user control, otherwise it is a very useful
feature.
Simo.
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On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 17:15 -0400, Bernd Stramm wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:09:22 -0400
> Simo Sorce wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 22:21 +0200, nodata wrote:
> > > 2. This seems like Trusted Computing, which got shot down in flames.
> >
> > W
manufacturer allows you to put in the TPM your own set of keys
then it's different as the user now has the power to do his own kernels
and sign them with his own key and have it verify by the TPM.
If the user trusts Fedora to do that he'd store a Fedora public key in
the TPM, if he doesn&#
On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 16:53 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 15:12 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> >> > On 24/06/11 20:49, Mil
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:36:00 -0800
Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 16:03 +, Frank Murphy wrote:
> > CuredHide
>
> Actually, I kind of like where this is going. Rawhide -> Curing ->
> Stable
>
braising ... what a meal will it be ...
Simo.
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Simo
"Branched Freeze Policy", "Once a Fedora release has
> branched from rawhide, ", "Mark this test-update as stable to go
> into the Branched tree"
>
> Seems to work, clearly indicates what's going on, doesn't overload
> anything. Thoughts?
>
2.).
> >
> > Even if people disagree with this we do NOT need a specific target
> > audience, selecting a specific group of users and telling others "go
> > away" is nothing but failure on our side.
>
> I think the essential problem is you cannot please
skilled enough to help you in such
rare cases... just saying.
Simo.
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